Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to Shining Inspiring Voices of Autism
[00:00:04] Speaker B: with show host Jennifer Dantzler.
[00:00:06] Speaker A: My name is Brennan and I am
[00:00:08] Speaker B: on the autism spectrum.
[00:00:10] Speaker A: Thank you for taking the time to
[00:00:11] Speaker B: learn more about the world of autism.
[00:00:14] Speaker A: If you enjoy what you hear today, don't forget to follow this podcast.
[00:00:18] Speaker B: Hey everyone, this is Jennifer Dantzler and I'm the executive director and founder of Inspire nd, a nonprofit whose mission is to create truly inclusive communities through education and engagement. The goal of this podcast is to shine a light on people and their stories in hopes of inspiring others who are on this journey of autism. Either themselves, their child, their loved one, their co worker. I truly believe ignorance is not bliss and we cannot be inclusive communities if we do not understand the people in the community. With autism now affecting 1 in 31 people, we need to get louder about this topic. We recognize that autism is a spectrum. There are a lot of people with a lot of different needs, a lot of resources available or none available. And we know that in every episode we can't meet everyone's needs for their species specific interest.
However, we hope that in each episode you do gleam some kind of insight as to how you can help your child or yourself be a better advocate. And as we go through our podcast, our goal really is to address the entire spectrum, the various needs, the various environments that we're going to be in. And we hope that there's something in every episode for each one of you. So let's get started.
Today I have a guest with me who I think you're going to learn so much from. Her name is Jennifer Kaufman and she's a speaker, a trainer and advocate, and the founder of Kaufman Inclusion Group. And first response, autism. So, Jennifer, thank you so much for being here.
[00:01:40] Speaker A: Well, thank you for having me.
[00:01:41] Speaker B: So Jennifer is, I would say, at the very least, a person who wears many hats. So today I think we're going to talk a little bit more about grandparenting of a child with autism and kind of throw in there a little bit of all the other things you do, if that's okay.
[00:01:56] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:01:57] Speaker B: Okay, so let's start with how you got started with the journey of autism.
[00:02:01] Speaker A: I started out my career as a teacher. I'm also sort of a computer geek. And that sort of transformed into, to me, working with various assistive technologies to help support my students.
I was working at a school for kids with learning disabilities at the time, and I decided I really wanted to have a broader impact on schools. And so I went and I got my principal certification that took a number of years And I found myself working in schools not only for students who are multiply disabled, who had a variety of challenges, but I was really gravitating towards students who are neurodiverse students with autism. And that is how I found myself, for the past seven years or so, working at a school primarily for students with autism.
[00:02:47] Speaker B: Okay, and what part of the country are you in?
[00:02:49] Speaker A: I am located right outside of New York City in northern New Jersey.
[00:02:52] Speaker B: Okay, okay, wonderful. Because that in case there are listeners close by you and want to reach out to you later, you worked in the schools and then something sort of happened for you personally, right?
[00:03:02] Speaker A: Absolutely. My own grandson, and he's new now, about to turn 9. When he was 4, he was diagnosed with autism.
[00:03:10] Speaker B: This was not unfamiliar to you when your grandchild got the diagnosis, right?
[00:03:14] Speaker A: That is correct.
[00:03:15] Speaker B: Okay, so you have several other services which I want you to give an overview of. Were you already doing these services before your grandson was diagnosed or was your grandson the passion to launch some of these other services?
[00:03:27] Speaker A: My grandson, really. All of my students that I have ever worked with have been my motivation to launch these. It started with my book, Parenting on the Spectrum. That was very personal because though I had that professional knowledge, I found myself sort of stumbling around personally as to what the best approach would be in offering all of my knowledge and expertise to my daughter, because it was sort of falling on deaf ears and the advice was not very welcome in the way it was being presented. You know, I went back to the drawing board and I started looking for resources for grandparents, and I found that there really weren't that many resources for grandparents.
[00:04:08] Speaker B: Tell me the name of the book again.
[00:04:10] Speaker A: Grandparenting on the Spectrum. A Journey from Both Sides of the Desk.
[00:04:14] Speaker B: Okay, wonderful. And so we will definitely have the link for that in our show notes for sure, for all of our listeners. Talk to me a little bit about each of the services that you do offer.
[00:04:23] Speaker A: I started noticing interactions that law enforcement were having with people who are neurodiverse, people with autism, and understanding through those interactions that more support was needed, more personal support, more professional support. And I felt that having that duality, being the grandmother personally and also having that professional knowledge really set me up to be able to provide constructive support that would be immediately able to be implemented in the field. Once a police officer or a first responder or somebody on a college campus security team understood that certain shifts in perspective, shifts in how we approach situations, could really affect the outcome greatly, that is wonderful.
[00:05:13] Speaker B: We do a lot of first responder training ourselves down here. In the Houston, Texas area for that same reason. Right. We've had, unfortunately, way too many interactions in the country that have not ended positively. You know, and as I say in all of my trainings, I understand for first responders, a 23 year old walking down the street and they're boxers talking to themselves and moving their arms around, Very hard to determine. Right. Is that a person with autism? Is that someone high? Is that someone having a nervous breakdown? The problem is we need to really interact with our people on the spectrum a little differently. And it's. How do we educate the first responders on that? Right. So that's one of the things you do, that's one of your many hats. Right. Is you do first responder training.
[00:05:50] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:05:50] Speaker B: Okay. And you wrote your book, You've already authored a book. What other services do you provide?
[00:05:54] Speaker A: I have been going into organizations and looking at how they support people with autism or people who are neurodivergent, how they set up their workplace environments so that all people can excel and all people can thrive and be successful. And sometimes again, those shifts aren't tremendous shifts, but they're really meaningful to the people that benefit from them.
[00:06:19] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yep. Neurodiversity in the workplace, also a huge passion of mine. What are some of the biggest challenges you're seeing in the workplace for our neurodivergent adults?
[00:06:28] Speaker A: Understanding that providing somebody with a moment, with not expecting immediacy in terms of answers, in terms of action, and giving someone time to respond, you know, without judgment is. Is important. And approaching things with curiosity versus judgment overall is a skill that we can apply to people who are neurodivergent. But honestly, it's a sort of universal design concept that benefits everyone.
[00:06:58] Speaker B: Absolutely. We literally are the same person. Yes. I say to everyone, if we just could have more grace in the world in general, like, we don't need it for our people with labels. We need it for everyone.
[00:07:08] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:07:09] Speaker B: Okay, so now you're going in and you're doing some neurodiversity in the workplace. Any other specific services before we dive into the grandparenting that covers it?
[00:07:17] Speaker A: You know, I really find myself in so many different situations as this evolves. I'll have someone sit in on a training for police officers. And that's how I ended up on college campuses, because a local college had sent some of their reps, and then their reps decided this is a training we need on campus. And so then I found myself in the college campus space. We don't know where this will end
[00:07:40] Speaker B: up gonna Go, that's right where the journey will take you. And that's so true about the college campuses because we've interviewed a few colleges on here, a few college self advocates, and more and more colleges are trying to create neurodiverse friendly programs. And so the more neurodiverse individuals on college campuses, they're already there, they just might not be being supported the way they should have been, either academically or socially or safety wise. And so I think getting on the college campuses is really, really wonderful because it's very much needed. So thank you for that. Okay, so now let's get into your grandson. I guess let's start with the more general question. What advice would you give a grandparent who suspects their child is not developing typically, how do they deal with that? Do they say something to their kids?
Do they not say something to their kids?
[00:08:27] Speaker A: How you say something to somebody else is incredibly important.
Doing so again without any kind of judgment, without any kind of. You didn't notice, but I did like that. It's just, it's setting somebody up to be on the defensive. And that's never what we want to do as a grandparent. We want to offer ourselves as a resource. If you notice, say communication delays, you might talk about specific things that you're noticing versus just, you know, did you talk to the pediatrician about this? But saying yesterday we were at the park and he wasn't able to say swing or he wasn't able to ask for what he needed. Is that something you experience too? And then open that conversation up and really listen to what your adult child is saying about their child.
[00:09:18] Speaker B: So it sounds like yes, grandparent, you're thinking grandparents should say something, but it's the how, the where, the when, right?
[00:09:25] Speaker A: Yes. Isn't it always?
[00:09:27] Speaker B: Maybe it's not in the middle of the tantrum and grandma or grandpa saying this is not normal. Right. It's not at that moment.
[00:09:34] Speaker A: Right. Not at that moment. In a moment of calm, in a moment where the stress is at a minimum, where conversation can be better received.
[00:09:44] Speaker B: And I get this a lot from grandparents, where initially maybe they did say something and they might have said it the right way, the right time, or not their child did not receive it well. And then the grandparents aren't sure whether to say something again or let it go. You know, what are your thoughts on that?
[00:09:59] Speaker A: I've made those same mistakes. What I write about in my book is that often I will have information for my daughter and her husband and I will just send it in an email with this sort of take what you like and leave the rest. I know they see it. If I say something, I know they hear it. And if I do not get the response that I expected, that's on me. They're intelligent people. I have great faith in their ability to remember something that was said to them or mailed to them. If they put that in their back pocket, I have to accept that that is okay.
[00:10:32] Speaker B: Really great point about the modality. Right. And for each family, whether that's going to be through a text or sitting down at your family Sunday dinner or whatever, whatever it is, you know, how are you presenting that to them?
[00:10:45] Speaker A: It's interesting because the one thing that I remind grandparents frequently, although we've raised our own children and we like to think of ourselves as the experts in this case, we're really not the experts in parenting a child with autism are the parents of that child. And we need to defer to that. As difficult as it might be sometimes. Yeah, we have to acknowledge that.
[00:11:09] Speaker B: And maybe at some point it's even asking the question of, I'd be happy to do some research for you. Is there any particular thing you'd like me to do for you and try to maybe have them take the lead, so to speak, and you do the grunt work, if you will. Right.
[00:11:22] Speaker A: A well informed grandparents who's able to communicate effectively is a game changer for a family.
[00:11:29] Speaker B: What kind of role do you think a grandparent should play in their special needs child's life? Right. Should they be the one at the ARDS meetings being the advocate? Should they, quote, just be Grandma, Grammy and Grampy and have the fun? You know, what kind of role do you find that being a grandparent is
[00:11:47] Speaker A: the best role for me, the fun piece. I thrive on that. I live for that. Those weekends where I might be able to see my grandson and we can just be silly together. But that being said, it has to be within the boundaries that are set by the parents. And I'm not even good at that in all honesty, because on occasion I'll get a phone call from my daughter and she'll say, did you stick that Oreo in his pocket before he left? Because in the car he was eating an Oreo and I didn't want him to eat an Oreo and I was, you know, those are special rewards. And yeah, Grandma crossed that line in a relatively harmless way. But Grandma's being grandmas, we do need to rein it in because we need to respect and support whatever it is our children, our adult children are doing for their Child. Just as we wanted to be supported when we were young parents, our parents
[00:12:44] Speaker B: were not going to tell us. Yes. How to parent. And whether we're putting them to bed too early or too late or letting them have too many sweets or not enough sweets. Yeah, it's hard. But I agree that adding that maybe some other diagnosis or label on top of it probably puts an additional fear or worry on grandma in this case. Right. And you're trying to help alleviate some of that fear or worry, but it might not be doing it the way that the. That your child needs the help. Right, right. Okay. So one of your services is called Grandparents on the Spectrum. So tell me a little bit about that.
[00:13:17] Speaker A: Well, it started right, with my book by the same title. And I go into local.
Sometimes it's libraries, sometimes there are faith congregations.
And I will speak to groups, talk about this very thing that we're discussing here. And I love it because I'm able to really read the crowd and address questions and let people know that they're not alone. For parents, it can feel like a very lonely type of thing, though I think there are more resources for parents than there are for grandparents. But as a grandparent, it can feel very scary, very alone. And so I will do in person speaking engagements. I will also do online speaking engagements. I do occasionally hold events that I post through my Facebook page. Grandparenting on the Spectrum. I will also do one on one consulting when somebody asks me. Absolutely.
[00:14:08] Speaker B: A few years ago, I had a colleague of mine and we talked a lot about this because again, I get a lot of conversations from grandparents saying I'm not sure what to do. I brought this up with my child. She's not pursuing it. And this person had a great piece of advice, which she said, what I say is just humor me and go get that assessment and prove me wrong. Great. Maybe I'm way off the mark on what I think might be going on. If there is something, time is of the essence. Right. That is, I think the biggest problem that we have is time is not our friend, especially when it comes to autism. And so the earlier the intervention, the better. I do remember. And it stuck with me. And I've used it with, to give advice to grandparents where they, you know, I say, well, what if you just say, great, well, worst case scenario, like if you can, financially, I'll pay for the assessment, you know, whatever the copay is or the cost. And just, can we just prove me wrong? And then wonderful. And we will drop the mic and have a party. But if not, you know, then we know where to get started.
[00:15:03] Speaker A: And that's not a bad approach at all.
[00:15:05] Speaker B: Can you share a few victories you've had from your organization? Like what are some things you've seen that have come from grandparents getting together and sharing their stories, their struggles, their victories?
[00:15:16] Speaker A: When I'm talking to a group, my favorite time is afterwards. And I have people come up to me and they bring to me very specific situations that they might be dealing with. Being able to sort of hand hold them through a situation and help them understand that it's not necessarily their responsibility to fix and it's not necessarily their responsibility to have all the answers. And you can see them like sort of light up, they're nodding their heads and they're glad to hear that. Because even myself, you know, coming from where I'm coming from, I do feel like I need to find the answers and I need to.
My daughter is upset with a behavior that happened or something that happened and I need that perfect piece of advice to give her. And I have remind myself that no, just showing up, just being there to listen and to support, that's the my most valuable role.
[00:16:13] Speaker B: Okay, wow, great piece of advice. Okay, if a grandparent is listening, what's the biggest takeaway? You want them to have to understand
[00:16:22] Speaker A: that if they do this right, they do this correctly and they don't make it about them, they really make it about what does my adult child need and what are they saying that my grandchild needs? And you show up in that manner that it builds such trust that you're there for their benefit versus you're there because you want to play, you know, put on the grandma hat and you want to bake cookies or you know, do something that isn't necessarily something that that child's skill set, then maybe that's not where they are at the moment.
Maybe you want to be just be the grandma that gets down on the floor and models imaginary play or whatever you want to do, but do it under the guidance and direction of that child's parents.
[00:17:08] Speaker B: But I've also seen struggles where you have grandparents who might have eight or 10 other grandchildren from their various children and they know how to grandparent or they've grandparented successfully, if you will, and then this grandchild comes in and all of a sudden it's maybe relearning grandparenting for this child and you can't expect the same thing from this child that you did your other grandchildren. The parents might be parenting different and so that's probably gotta be very hard when you as a parent and you have a child who now gets a diagnosis, you have to sort of relearn parenting many times. But I don't know that we think about that for the grandparents where it's the same thing for the grandparents.
[00:17:45] Speaker A: True words cannot have been spoken. Absolutely. I will say that my grandson's other grandparents on dad's side are such wonderful advocates when it comes to the other cousins. Ben is my only grandchild. But that side of the family has, I think they have six other grandchildren. And what they do is make sure that those grandchildren understand what Ben needs in terms of inclusion and support and communication. And it's okay that he just wants to be by himself right now. That's totally okay. And I've seen that go on over the years. And as these children get older, they're all mid to late elementary school years right now, and they're compassionate, well rounded, supportive people who see Ben as just one of their cousins. And everybody's got different personality traits and everybody has things that they like and they don't like. And that just is something that they apply to him as well.
[00:18:47] Speaker B: That's such a great point. Like, it's almost like flipping the script where maybe you as the grandparent were inclined to now help your grandchild be included in that chaotic Thanksgiving Day with the eight other cousins or what have you. But maybe the best thing you can be doing, like, to your point, is helping the other grandchildren on how to include him and help them be supportive in their environment.
[00:19:10] Speaker A: If you make that your sort of cause the way you want to grandparents, you're just doing so much for all of your grandchildren, not just the one with special needs.
[00:19:21] Speaker B: Right. And we know that about any program that has been inclusive, any school. One of our very first episodes ever was with a teenager who grew up in a very inclusive classroom. And he's neurotypical, but he talked about all the benefits and everything you learn in life when trying to have to be a little bit more compassionate and sensitive, open minded, caring, supportive, all the things that we should all be doing in life. But it's a great. Right there in front of you. Life lesson on how to do it.
[00:19:47] Speaker A: You had asked me earlier about where I saw all of this going, and I actually have notes in my journal about creating some kind of curriculum for middle schoolers and elementary schoolers to understand that we are all different. And people who have sensory needs or people who have communication challenges, you know, providing them ways to support their peers.
[00:20:12] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. We definitely can't do it of that because that's one of the things I always say too is ignorance is not bliss in our world. And there are so many people, I think out in the community who want to help and do well. And grandparents, right, want to help and do the right thing. They don't know what they don't know. And so then sometimes we're afraid you have the person working at the restaurant who didn't understand the adolescent who was ordering. So then they turn to the caregiver and ask them because they don't want to upset the person with autism. They're not trying to minimize the person with autism, they're just trying to not upset them. And I could see that very much even applying as a grandparent or with the fellow cousins. They're not sure how to interact now with this little boy or girl who might be nonverbal or hitting their head or licking objects or whatever it is. And how can we help them understand? It's a great opportunity to do that. If I have a parent listening who has then active grandparents in their lives. So like their parents or their, you know, their husband or wife's parents.
Like, what's the biggest piece of advice you give to a parent?
[00:21:11] Speaker A: Diagnosis is information. It's not a verdict, it just opens up doors for support. It doesn't close them. And that putting any type of limits on what your expectations for your child are, just throw them out the window. Because I assure you that your child will exceed whatever kind of limitations you think exist right now in this moment.
[00:21:35] Speaker B: Yeah, that's so true. I would say probably, I don't know, 80% of the clients I've worked with over the last 30 years, you know, their parents were originally told they will be non verbal or don't, you know, they will never hold a job or they won't go to school, whatever it is. Right. And then our guys have far surpassed that. But as a parent, as far as if their parents are involved and maybe the grandparents or they're too involved or not evolved enough, how should the parent handle that?
[00:22:00] Speaker A: They should just buy them a copy of my book.
[00:22:02] Speaker B: There you go. There you go. Grandparenting on the spectrum.
[00:22:05] Speaker A: Communication. And you know, hey, communication in some families is incredibly different and has deep historical patterns within the family. And I think that as the parents try to understand what your goal is in the situation and if your goal is to improve communication, then look at what's not working on your own without the person there. You know, no accusatory, this isn't working. But look at what's not Working and find strategies to improve communication so that your message and your needs can be better conveyed.
[00:22:43] Speaker B: Right. Your book, Grandparenting on the A Journey from Both Sides.
[00:22:47] Speaker A: Both sides of the desk.
[00:22:48] Speaker B: Both sides of the desk. Who should read that? Grandparents, I would assume. But then also the parents of the child should also read it.
[00:22:55] Speaker A: I'm sure that parents would get something out of it. Aunts, uncles, you know, family members generally who don't have much experience.
When there's somebody in the family with autism, it would be a good resource,
[00:23:07] Speaker B: you know, and one of the things I. I try to talk about in a lot of my trainings, too, is things around, like the holidays. Not only do we need to try to prepare our people on the spectrum for those crazy times when the furniture gets moved around the house, you're eating at a different time of day, all the things, but also preparing the family members. Johnny's going to sit at the table for four minutes and that's it. And we're not going to expect more, and that's going to be okay.
[00:23:31] Speaker A: Johnny may not eat turkey on Thanksgiving, and that's okay. Understanding that different is okay. And that traditions, though, they may be very important to a family. They can be adapted and adjusted and put aside for the year. Hey, maybe we'll come back to it next year and try again. It isn't something that has to be done just for the sake of tradition. Like, that's just counterproductive when there's somebody, especially if it's a little person, that needs something different.
[00:24:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:24:04] Speaker A: Needs quiet time or needs to be able to walk around the table 50 times. That's okay. It's okay. Who says it's not?
[00:24:11] Speaker B: And, you know, I keep going back to when you were talking about some things earlier, and an example that keeps popping up in my head. And I don't know if this happens for you because you are an experienced educator. Like, have you ever gone to your ARD for your grandson? The IEP meeting.
[00:24:24] Speaker A: First time there was an IEP meeting, I just assumed that I was going to go, oh, I'm the grandmother. I'm a principal. I'll be at the IEP meeting, of course. And so when I asked my daughter what time the IEP meeting was, she was like, why? Why are you asking me that? I said, well, I guess I'm gonna go. And she said, no, I've got this. Don't worry about it. And I walked away sort of butt hurt and sort of saying, like, well, and then again, me sitting back and reflecting on the whys, what is the dynamic here that would make her say that? And I realized that as a young, she needed to learn how to be a mom at an IEP meeting without her mom there. She was not looking for school principal mom. It was her mom that was going to be at the IEP meeting. She did not need that. And that's okay. And I have to tell you, I think I did get a text during the IEP meeting with a question. Great.
[00:25:17] Speaker B: Right.
[00:25:17] Speaker A: But how different would the situation have been if I took it very personally and then put up a wall? Well, you didn't ask me. We as grandparents have to get past that. We have to sort of put our ego aside and understand that our adult children are in such a challenging situation because they're not only learning how to parent, they're learning how to parent a child that may need ongoing support for the rest of their lives.
Offering ourselves as a resource, as a help mate, as somebody that is on their side and not looking to make their life more difficult. Just because we want to be at an IEP meeting or just because. Because we want to be in some part of their lives that they feel they've got it, they're good. It's crucial that as grandparents and family members, we understand that because it's the best way we can show up for our adult children.
[00:26:11] Speaker B: If I did go to an IEP meeting with a grandchild, Yes. I would have just jumped right in and probably taken over and it probably would not have gone well for my child.
So, you know, because, yeah, I mean, I know the stuff. Why wouldn't I share my knowledge? Right. But to your point, they've got to be the parent and learn how to parent in the way that their child needs. I think that's excellent.
[00:26:34] Speaker A: I can tell you in years to come, I was invited to a meeting. It was sort of an interim IEP meeting where there was some issue happening. And so I was asked to be there and I reflected on it and I was there, but I made sure that I took a back seat. Was that my job to run the IEP meeting?
[00:26:52] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:26:52] Speaker A: I was, you know, I was there as grandma.
[00:26:54] Speaker B: You know, to me, to kind of sum up this, this episode, it sounds like your philosophy and what you want to try to teach on is if you're a grandparent, you literally just need to say to your grandchild, how can I best support you? What does support look like for you?
[00:27:10] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:27:11] Speaker B: The last question I ask every guest who comes on is, what piece of advice would you have for a parent of a Newly diagnosed child.
[00:27:19] Speaker A: Understanding that the diagnosis is not a verdict, and understanding that you have a tremendous amount of information at your fingertips in terms of the Internet and all of the resources that are out there, but do not feel pressured to have to do things a certain way. This is your family. This is your parenting style. This is your child's look to the resources that you have. And they may be the grandparents and the aunts and uncles.
And it's okay to ask for help. I know it's really, really hard to ask for help, but it's okay to ask for help.
[00:27:55] Speaker B: Is there anything else that we haven't talked about that you'd like to share or any wonderful epiphanies or.
[00:28:02] Speaker A: There is something that I tried to mention on, during every speech, put it into every appearance that I do, and that is the small fact that 93% of accidental deaths when it comes to people with autism involve water. So as a grandparent or an aunt or an uncle or a parent, get your child appropriate swimming lessons as soon as possible so that if there is a situation where they are in the water, they are able to get themselves to the side of the pool or the lake and save themselves.
[00:28:35] Speaker B: Absolutely. We actually have a couple episodes from various swim instructors who talk about that. And I love the idea of pushing the emphasis on water safety, not swim lessons. Right. Because I'll sometimes talk to parents and they'll say, I don't care if my child knows how to swim, meaning do the backstroke and learn how to do laps. But no, you have to understand water safety. It is very scary. You're right. And so again, increasing around the country resources of better trained water safety professionals. And you need to seek them out and use them.
[00:29:08] Speaker A: Absolutely. This summer I got to witness my grandson swimming independently for the first time. And it was sort of a sigh of relief more than anything else. You know, I was happy for his success, but all I could think of, they live in a water community, a water based community. And it was like, oh my gosh, I'm. I'm so grateful that this is happening.
[00:29:27] Speaker B: Well, and then I know, I would imagine to you, you also. That's part of what we train first responders on, right. Is go to the water, go to any of the water. If a child's missing, go to the water first. Whether it's the 2 inch detention pond somewhere nearby or the neighbor's pool or what have you. Right?
[00:29:45] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:29:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. Well, Jennifer, I really appreciate you being here. We will definitely be putting in the show notes. The grandparenting on the spectrum A journey from both sides of the desk. You have your organization grandparenting on the spectrum. Where can people find you?
[00:29:59] Speaker A: Well they can go to my website which is just my name jennkaufman.com I also have websites they will bring you to my other websites firstresponseautism.com or grandparentingonthespectrum.com okay, wonderful.
[00:30:12] Speaker B: Well I really appreciate you being here and I mean I think a grandparents perspective, we don't talk about it enough because the grandparents are a huge support and resource and yeah it's how can they be the most effective support for their child. So I look forward to looking at more of your resources and hopefully I know the listeners will also do that. So thank you so much for taking the time.
[00:30:33] Speaker A: Thank you so much Jennifer.
[00:30:35] Speaker B: If you need help or resources, whether you're a parent, someone on the spectrum, a business or a community organization who want to know more or need help or want to share resources, please reach out to us at info.
[00:30:49] Speaker A: Thanks for joining us on Shining inspiring Voices of Autism.
[00:30:54] Speaker B: If you enjoyed this episode, please be
[00:30:57] Speaker A: sure to follow us, leave a review and share it with others who want to celebrate neurodiversity.
[00:31:04] Speaker B: Until next time, keep shining.
