[00:00:01] Sarah: Welcome to Shining, Inspiring Forces of Autism with show host Jennifer Dantzler. My name is Sarah and I have autism. Thank you for taking the time to learn more about the world of autism. If you enjoy what you hear today, don't forget to follow this podcast.
[00:00:19] Jennifer Dantzler: Hey everyone, this is Jennifer Dantzler and I'm the executive director and founder of Inspire nd, a nonprofit whose mission is to create truly inclusive communities through education and engagement. The goal of this podcast is to shine light on real people and their stories in hopes of inspiring others who are on this journey of autism. Either themselves, their child, their loved one, their co worker. I truly believe ignorance is not bliss and we cannot be inclusive communities if we do not understand the people in the community.
With autism now affecting 1 in 31 people, we need to get louder about this topic. We recognize that autism is a spectrum. There are a lot of people with a lot of different needs, a lot of resources available or none available. And we know that in every episode we can't meet everyone's needs, needs for their specific interest.
However, we hope that in each episode you do gleam some kind of insight as to how you can help your child or yourself be a better advocate. And as we go through our podcasts, our goal really is to address the entire spectrum, the various needs, the various environments that we're going to be in. And we hope that there's something in every episode for each one of you. So let's get started.
Speaker B: Dr. Tara Williams is with us today and she's actually a professor and a founder of the innovative Collegiate Consultants, where she focuses on on executive functioning for neurodivergent students. And today we're really gonna talk about the transition from high school to college. But if you are a parent of a six year old or a neurodivergent adult who's already done this, we encourage you still to stay on because she's really gonna talk about so much more than just what is it that you need to go to college? Tara, thank you so much for being here.
[00:01:56] Dr. Tara Williams: Thank you so much for having me.
[00:01:57] Jennifer Dantzler: Okay, so first let's talk a little bit about your credentials and the services that you offer.
[00:02:02] Dr. Tara Williams: I am a tenured professor at College of the Canyons. I am also, well, I'm a chemist professor, so I have a PhD in inorganic chemistry. I received that in England. I really got into this work after teaching students for the last 20 years. I started working with these students as I was teaching and realizing that students learn in all kinds of different ways. When I was about 23 and I was put in the classroom with students who were a few years younger than me. And then from there, I sort of blossomed into learning about neurodivergence and what that looks like in a classroom and what students struggle with. And from there, I came out to California, started my business where I work with students with neurodivergence, mainly adhd, autism, auhd, and really focus on that transition to college and building those executive functioning skills while they're in college.
[00:02:56] Jennifer Dantzler: Okay, wow, wonderful. And a PhD in chemistry, you said. Holy cow. Okay. All right. What have you all done lately anyway? Just.
Okay. So what are some of the main struggles you see when someone is looking to transition, transition from high school to college that might have autism or add?
[00:03:15] Dr. Tara Williams: I think that a lot of times, most of the executive functioning meetings and things like that are taken care of in K12 through the parents instead of the students themselves, which totally makes sense. But when they get to college, it's up to them. They are now independent adults. So one of the first struggles that I see in that transition is that maybe those students don't sign up for their accommodations, which they've always had. And some students are sort of like, oh, I didn't think I needed it anymore. Right. I wanted to start fresh, or maybe there's some shame with that. I didn't want to admit that I needed that still in college. So I would say that's one of the first hurdles, is that a lot of students don't set up those accommodations. And then another hurdle would be that organization, time management, where students had a very structured K12 life, probably from the time they left until they got home, whether that's after school, activities or sports or with their friends, and, you know, very structured school life. Now we're looking at massive chunks of time that these students have during the day, so they have to learn how to prepare around that time. Maybe you're in classes 15 hours a week, more of your STEM, but typically 15 hours a week. And then what do you do with the rest of your time to ensure that you're getting things done, but also having that social life and that, you know, other things that make you happy.
[00:04:31] Jennifer Dantzler: So that's interesting. The first thing you talk about is accommodations, because we've actually had a few neurodivergent adults who are in college on here, and they also talk about the accommodations and the importance of them. And I try to tell other neurodivergent adults when I can get a hold of them. Your diploma does not have listed on it. The accommodations that you needed. So take them if you can get them, right?
[00:04:51] Dr. Tara Williams: Of course. I mean, there's anything that can help us, obviously help us succeed, why not use it, right? Or I tell my students, hey, we're going to go ahead and sign up for them. If you never use them, that's fine. But we have them in case, hey, this, this semester I'm really struggling in this class and I could really use that extra time or I could really use a note taker. So then it's so much easier than having to get the paperwork approved, meet with your disability services person, go through the whole thing. But we're already there. We're already set up. It's set up from the beginning. Also, a tip for parents right now, you should be making those appointments with your accessibility center probably before, but right now, if you haven't made those appointments or your students hadn't made those appointments, make them now because it's going to get very, very busy. And if it doesn't, you don't sign up early enough, you're maybe not going to even receive those accommodations till October, probably after mid terms.
[00:05:41] Jennifer Dantzler: Yes, it's not immediate. So that's a really good point. And then the other thing you just talked about was how, you know, you're only in class for 15 hours. So there's these unstructured times. And I know for a lot of the families I see their child is used to very structured time all the time because the parents either had them in therapies, social skills groups, something to keep them occupied, something to channel their energy, Right? And now all of a sudden, to your point, you get there and you know you don't have to go to class till 12. Well, do you sleep to 11:45 or do you get up and maybe do some more homework or clean your dorm room or what have you, Right?
[00:06:15] Dr. Tara Williams: Yeah. And also the social aspect, like you're talking about a lot of times, that's arranged by parents, right? And now this is a student and there are a million billion clubs on campus and a lot of things to do. But now these students who maybe socially are just finding themselves or are less aware or they don't know anybody or they know a few people from high school, but maybe they want to spread their wings right Then now they're having to go and be like, hey, I want to join. How does this work? What does this look like? And I don't know about you, Jennifer, but I still struggle with that. So I feel like these students are really going to struggle with coming up to Somebody and be like, I want to be a part of this. What does that look like?
[00:06:51] Jennifer Dantzler: So then what are some of the things? If a parent is listening right now or an advocate, what are some things that they could be doing in high school, maybe even middle school to help to start to prepare these students, sometimes
[00:07:02] Dr. Tara Williams: letting them fail on their own, taking some of that, that executive functioning off of your plate as a parent and giving it to the student. Let's try small assignments, especially like we're talking middle school here. So let's say that the student has a test on Thursday.
It's on the family calendar. It's on the student's calendar. We know that there's a test Thursday or a quiz, let's say a quiz, make it less points. Right? A quiz on Thursday. Let's maybe remind them on Sunday. Hey, this quiz is on Thursday and maybe on Monday. Hey, have you studied for that? That quiz is on Thursday. But then that Tuesday and Wednesday. See what they do. I think that constant reminder is something they're not going to have or sometimes they do have that. But I have parents that come to me all the time, hey, I want to stop having to do this. I've done this their whole, their whole K12 career. Like what do I do? So that's one of the things that I would definitely say is let them fail small things, see how they do and maybe they don't fail. Maybe they do amazing. Maybe that they have those executive functioning skills already. And if they don't and they don't do well on that quiz, then okay, how can I support you? What happened? Let's, let's figure out how we're going to do it so that you are becoming more independent in those skills. I also, one of my favorite tips is sitting with your student while they're working. Right. I feel like when we were younger, I sat at the table and did my homework at night, right. And my parents sat there. I mean there was obviously no smartphones or anything like that, maybe the TV in the other room. But we kind of all sat there as a family and did what we had to do. And my parents, I'm first generation, so my parents didn't go to college, but they were there doing their. My mom was working on the checkbook, my dad was reading a book, whatever. Right? But in order to support that, because if we're all together, you're not getting used to, oh my goodness, I'm going to go sit in my room and work on things. And when I get frustrated or when I feel Shame that I can't do something or I can't ask a question.
[00:08:45] Jennifer Dantzler: Right.
[00:08:45] Dr. Tara Williams: And then we're building those skills that to me, working with other people or learning how to work in the library or ask your friends questions and that body doubling sort of situation is so important in college. But if we're automatically learning in middle school and high school, I'll just do it in my room. I think that that really sort of stunts that process.
[00:09:02] Jennifer Dantzler: That's very interesting. I don't know that I thought about that. And then the other piece, as you were saying, that is even then maybe getting especially your ADD ADHD person used to other noises and distractions, someone else sitting next to them clicking their pen or bouncing their knee or something else to where that might be a distraction for them. And they have to get used to that. To your point. Right. They have to be in class with people. They need to be in the library studying, hopefully. And so even just tolerating getting used to being around other people.
[00:09:29] Dr. Tara Williams: Yeah. And you know, obviously that that holds true for students with autism as well when there's some sensory issues. But for sure, I tell all of my students that I teach and that we work with. Your classmates are your biggest asset. They're the people that are going to answer those questions at midnight or one in the morning when your professor is not going to be there. Those are the people that you study with. Those are the people that if you're sick and you miss class, can share notes with, learning how to make those connections even if they're not friends. Right. They're just your classmates that you study with. That's fine. We don't all have to be in the same social levels. Right. But to me, working with those students and that body doubling, knowing I have a test Wednesday, I'm going to study with these people Monday, Tuesday, that's so important to be able to do that rather than sitting and suffering alone and not really knowing the answers to questions or what to do and relying on the professor who may not always be available.
[00:10:19] Jennifer Dantzler: So then that goes back to maybe even another tip of even in high school, rather than the parents answering the question questions, if they're stuck on a problem, prompting them to say, who can you call right now to get help with that? Or who can you text or what have you?
[00:10:31] Dr. Tara Williams: Yeah, absolutely. I feel like that was. That's sort of a lost art that you and I probably did as well. I know when I was struggling with something, my parents had no idea what I was doing or how to do it. We would call up our friends. Right. Well, we had to get up and
[00:10:43] Jennifer Dantzler: walk to the wall and pick up the phone and dial. But yes, we did call. We. Yeah, we reached out to other people. We didn't reach out to our parents.
No.
[00:10:52] Dr. Tara Williams: The ones that were in our class. Right. And say, hey, I don't know the answer to number nine. Can you explain how you do that for the homework tomorrow? You know, as you're talking about working with adults that aren't in college, these are skills that we need to learn how to do so that when we're working on a project at work, we're not just staring at something for two hours. We're like, hey, I don't know how to do this. Like, learning to ask for help, I think is also an amazing tip. We all need to learn how to ask for help instead of having that idea that it's shameful or that you're doing something wrong or that you can't figure it out on your own. Right. That's something that we all, I feel like, struggle with. When you get into the workforce, there's going to be things you don't know how to do. Every job has very different requirements and needs. And I feel like learning how to do that in college and learning how to self advocate is so important in the workforce as well.
[00:11:35] Jennifer Dantzler: Right. And to go even further than that, like, I'm even thinking in high school, you specifically get put into, like, project groups. Right. You don't get to choose who you call to ask for questions or to work on a project with. So even maybe working on the skills of how do you decide who that person is to call? And if you're sitting in class and that person's always coming to late to class and never prepared and can't answer the question, and the professor calls on them, maybe that's not the person they put in their circle of support. Right?
[00:12:02] Dr. Tara Williams: Yeah. Even if they're your friend.
[00:12:04] Jennifer Dantzler: Right.
[00:12:04] Dr. Tara Williams: Which is also a good thing to learn. And I feel like group projects are so dreaded that everyone's like, oh, but it's also. Sometimes you learn that in a project you're going to do the majority of the work. Sometimes that is just the way that it is. And we've all had those projects at work and it just. It is what it is.
[00:12:20] Jennifer Dantzler: Are we seeing colleges where you just have to go to the disability center and ask for accommodations? Is that good? Do the disability centers know what they're talking about? Are there programs out there specifically for people with autism and add?
[00:12:32] Dr. Tara Williams: I mean, obviously Your accessibility center on campus, I will always say is your is a really amazing resource. Getting those accommodations set up, that's one of the most important things. Those staff members are also have experience working with students with that are neurodivergent. They can also help you advocate with for your professors if there's a problem. Maybe you have a testing time and you realize, oh my gosh, I have a game like a say you're an athlete. I have something I didn't realize I need to change that testing time. So those are sort of the people that I would say are amazing at their job. Those are the first people to make contact with. But there are a lot more schools who are starting students, starting programs for students with autism. So maybe that's moving in early and getting a lay of the land of the campus a little bit early, sort of saying, hey, this is where we're going to eat. Taking a tour, walking around, this is where we do laundry, things like that. And then also I think sort of that cohorting model where we're getting also getting to know people before school starts. So if those social skills are a bit, need a bit of help that sort of automatically puts you in a cohort situation. And some programs also have, like I said, those, those meetings with accessibility, but then maybe some more meetings or some more social groups and things like that for with autism.
[00:13:45] Jennifer Dantzler: Because a lot of these programs, again, it's not an altered degree, it's just additional supports.
[00:13:50] Dr. Tara Williams: Yes. No one will ever know that you've used accommodations. Like you said, there's never anything that's going to be said. Oh, they used expert testing or they used, you know, note takers. No, that's all going to be the same. Speaking of high schoolers, there are even some programs that will allow students maybe 10th or 11th grade to come in and take a class. Maybe it's non credit, maybe it's not, you know, grade threatening.
But to live on campus the year before for a couple weeks in the summer, take a class and sort of see is this something I want to do? Is this something I'm able to do? So I think those are some great programs for students in high school as well.
[00:14:26] Jennifer Dantzler: Yeah, that'd be great. Front loading and preparation just to see what it's all about. And then especially if it's not for credit, as you said earlier, don't help your child if it's a non credit class, like really don't. I mean don't let them drown, right. But really let them try to figure out those supports I think that's a wonderful, wonderful idea.
[00:14:43] Dr. Tara Williams: Right. Can I live in a dorm with another human being? Like what does that look like for me? Is it better that I stay home for a couple years and do community college, that kind of thing?
[00:14:52] Jennifer Dantzler: Well, and that's funny you bring that up because that was me. My next question, in general, we're seeing a lot more community college first for, you know, neurotypical people, people with autism, add, you said, you name it. These community colleges, at least in our area, in the Houston, Texas area, are just exploding, right. With not only number of students but also types of programs. Is that good for our neurodiverse population? Should they be doing that too?
[00:15:15] Dr. Tara Williams: Oh, absolutely. I mean I'm a community college profess myself and living in California. I think we have 117 community colleges. I'm always going to advocate for community college, firstly because it's the tuition is so much better for the first two years. Right. We know that we're mounting in student debt. It's a way to get into college and to live that life with maybe not having to live on campus. So maybe you have a couple of extra years for that. All of the professors, all of the classes, they're just as difficult. I think sometimes it gets a bad name, right? Oh, that's not, is that's not true. Most of us that teach at a community college or work there is because we want to. Right. We were there to teach where maybe the research aspect isn't, oh, this is so important. You have to do that. We get to do more grant work and things like that to really help students. But in general, I think it's a great foray into college and I know it's very popular in the more expensive states because you save a little bit of money and as a high school student you could even be taking dual enrollment classes to see what that's like too. Do I enjoy the community college? My campus has a school where you can get your high school diploma and your AA at the same time. You're walking away at 18 and having that.
[00:16:20] Jennifer Dantzler: Right.
[00:16:21] Dr. Tara Williams: So for me I think it's a great foray. I think it's a great education and I also think it's socially or maybe maturity wise, you're not ready to go away to school, then let's try this and see what this looks like. And it's still college classes, but maybe you still have those supports at home.
[00:16:35] Jennifer Dantzler: Well, and I think to that point, especially for our families listening and our neurodiverse individuals, there are several aspects to college. It's not just the academics, and it's not just the social skills, and it's not just the independent living skills. It's all of them. It's the executive functioning skills. It's all of them.
[00:16:52] Dr. Tara Williams: When I went to college, I had not lived in. In a room with another person for a very long time. Right. Since my brother and I were kids. And now you're. Oh, let's just. I feel like it's the great social experiment. You're living with two other people.
So that's a huge thing in learning how to deal with other people. And maybe it doesn't go so well sometimes. Right. Like, I can't imagine being in a small room with that many people for a year. I think it's a great experience in some ways, but it's also an experience that's difficult in a lot of ways. Voice.
[00:17:18] Jennifer Dantzler: Should those individuals tell their roommates they're nerdiverse?
[00:17:21] Dr. Tara Williams: I mean, I. Obviously that's up to the student, but in my experience, a lot of students that I work with are not, as I would say, females, maybe more than males are more likely to. To say that to friends, peers, roommates, whatever. But I think that more. More males are saying it, and I. I think it's important. A lot of the students that do decide to tell them is either because they take medication, and maybe there's now a lot of locked place with their medication in it, you know, in case this happens or in case I'm having this mood or in case I'm quiet, maybe for the social aspect of that. And students with autism, I think as well, are more telling people, hey, like, socially, this may be an issue. Please tell me if it's a problem. Or maybe if I say something awkward. Right. Or something that seems awkward to you. If you want to, you know, talk it through with me, that's helpful.
[00:18:06] Jennifer Dantzler: And then I know when we talked offline to prepare for this, you talked about bridge program, so can you talk a little bit about what a bridge program is? And you talked a little bit about they're primarily for autism. Should they be expanded?
[00:18:18] Dr. Tara Williams: Yeah. So those programs are sort of the ones that we were talking about earlier, where the students come in early, they have that experience, they're signing up early, some of them have a mentor who are in the program. And yes, I think these programs are amazing. A lot of students, some that I even work with, won't go and say, hey, I have autism. They don't want to have that label, which is fine. But I think a lot of these bridge programs are super important. And once again, I go back to. I'm from a very small town in Florida. I went to Florida State with 20,000 other students and we had a bridge program for all students that was just the first six weeks of the semester. You're going to take this half credit class and learn where the library is and make a doctor's appointment. Go get your parking pass. And I feel like we had a lot of different. Those orientation programs that were super important early, now I feel like orientation is pushed so far that they're learning everything. Sort of putting the plane together as it's flying.
[00:19:14] Jennifer Dantzler: Primarily those now are for people with autism. Yeah. Should they be expanded to other neurodiversities?
[00:19:19] Jennifer Dantzler: I mean, I think they should be expanded to all students. Right. I think that obviously our neurodivergent population, it's super important. But I always think about that option of that of being for everyone, that universal design that works well for some. For students who are neurodivergent, it's gonna work well for everyone. So those bridge programs are super important. Even if you're going to a community college.
[00:19:39] Jennifer Dantzler: Right.
[00:19:39] Dr. Tara Williams: Because now you're doing things on your own that you've never done. The academics are going to be different, your time management is going to be different. Learning how to, how to move through all that.
[00:19:48] Jennifer Dantzler: Once some of these students that you see get into the classroom, what do you see as some of the successes and what are some of the struggles they're still having?
[00:19:56] Dr. Tara Williams: I mean, I think personally in my classroom, some of the things that I've really seen is the lack of reading. The reading comprehension, I feel like has really, I've really seen struggle in terms of students don't want to read a textbook anymore. Right. Like, there's, I feel like there's a lot of pressure for, from my students that tell me, hey, like, no, but why should I read that? You're going to teach it all to me. That's your job to teach it to me. And I'm like, no, it's sort of like a flipped classroom. You're supposed to read before you come here so that we can work on the hard things together. And talking to other professors, especially with AI, right. This is becoming a huge issue of, of losing those skills in reading, which are important for every single thing we do in life. I would also say the time management people are really struggling with that and the organization of if we're not reading right. And now we're trying to figure out, oh my God, I have to Put all my notes together, I have to do all this. What does that look like? And we're studying five hours before an exam that usually doesn't go as well. Or even if your professors have laid everything out and you're waiting to the last minute. Right. These are problems that students are really facing. But I really think a lot of it comes down to reading comprehension, planning, going through your learning management shell. And in some of that, I feel like too, from my experience on the other side, not as a professor, but working with students, I think professors, we can always learn to do a little better in our organization of our shells, in our way that we're communicating with students, making sure that everything's organized, that we're not saying something in class one time because a lot of students aren't going to remember that. You know, can we write it on the board? Can we reinforce it? Can we not have a ways of communicating that are on the learning management system through email, through verbal cues, through online, you know, through a Google Drive, as well as learning management. That's five things right there that students are checking, looking for something that we could maybe organize better.
[00:21:50] Jennifer Dantzler: Well, and I think to that point, you know, again, a lot of what I see also is we're just not focusing enough on those executive functioning skills at home. Things are very structured and they know what time dinner is and mom's help waking them up in the morning, you know, and, and that sort of thing. And so as much as we can front load some of those things from
[00:22:08] Dr. Tara Williams: the student's perspective and from a professor's perspective, and something I've had to learn, right, is that when you walk into a school, when you're 18 to a college, whatever that looks like, you're the same person that you were three months before you graduated when you graduated high school. But we had this expectation of, oh, these are different people now, right. Like they're, they're in college. And so I feel like that those expectations from everyone need to be looked at a little bit differently. And remembering what it was like when we went, it was terrifying for me, leaving home, not knowing anyone, not knowing what I was doing. The first couple of things I didn't do well on were life changing.
[00:22:43] Jennifer Dantzler: Right.
[00:22:43] Dr. Tara Williams: Also, as we said, adding that social aspect on, maybe you're having a problem making friends, maybe you're with your high school boyfriend or girlfriend, you break up, right? Like that. There's a lot of things I feel like that happen in those first six months that are a lot.
[00:22:56] Jennifer Dantzler: Yeah, absolutely. Let's talk a Little bit about accommodations. How do you find what ones are available? How do you know which ones to choose? How do you make sure you didn't leave something on the table that was really important?
[00:23:07] Dr. Tara Williams: So most of the accommodations that are recommended to you are going to be from when you saw your psychologist and they give you a report. The accessibility office is always going to ask for it. So bringing that report with you to your meeting with your accessibility person, and they're going to look over it and say, okay, these are the combinations I recommend. The ones that are used most often are going to be the time and a half or double time on exams in a quiet room in the testing center. Note takers. I know a lot of schools use AI now or otter otter AI to take notes. I would definitely say in STEM classes that's a little more difficult when you have things like formula or math or things like that. That or you have a student. Note taker. Some other things could be like preferential seating. Sometimes students with anxiety, I would always advocate that they talk to their professors and themselves. Obviously it'll be on the paperwork and say, hey, like, if I'm really struggling on finishing an assignment, would there be a way that as long as I let you know beforehand that before it's due, that I could have a little extra time if I'm really struggling, if it's going to cause a panic attack? Things like that. That the accommodations I feel like always ask for more. They can always say no. A lot of these accommodations that may be extra are professorial discretion. But that's why it's so important to go have a conversation with your professors the first week and say, hey, this is what I need to succeed. I understand, like, not all of it may work in the classroom, but, you know, what can we work with together to make sure that I'm having what I need to succeed again?
[00:24:33] Jennifer Dantzler: Both my kids in college, too, meet your professors. If they have to make a judgment at some point and they know you, they'll err on the side of in favor of you. But to that point, even to your professor about anxiety and saying, is there any way you cannot call on me in class? Right. Like, whatever that is that that might look like, say, for anxiety.
[00:24:49] Dr. Tara Williams: Yeah. We could at least say, hey, like, can we, you know, in your case, can we meet? I'll come to office hours and you can ask me questions. Or I've had students that the fear of public speaking just caused so much trauma. Some of the professors allowed them to do it with them on Zoom. Right. Or record it on zoom and turn it in. We want to help. And I also tell my students, no one knows what I want more than people, me. So you can definitely think about it or overthink it or ask your friends, but just come ask me. I'll be able to tell you yes or no, like what I'm willing to do, but. And also, you know, as we were talking, thinking about that word need, I think a lot of times accommodations are looked at as something a student wants, whereas this is something that the student needs to succeed. And I even hear that a lot in my students after they graduate and they're in the job world. You know, a lot of people think, hey, I, I just, I want this right when it's something that I need. And making sure that we're using that language when we're talking about these things.
[00:25:44] Jennifer Dantzler: You know, even looking at my kids who've gone through college, they might be able to get through that long assignment, but at what cost? It costs them emotional havoc. It costs them not. I mean, we've all gone to college and not been able to take a shower because we had to pull an all nighter, right? And run to class. But it's more of an extreme. And if it happens with every assignment because the person's getting it done, but at the cost of other things, eventually it's going to catch up with them.
[00:26:08] Dr. Tara Williams: Sleep is so important. And I feel like, I know I didn't sleep for years when I was in college and I thought, really? But especially now, you read books on how that takes time off your life, right? And how important sleep is. And I remember talking to my mom when I was having a really bad day one time in college. And she's like, tara, you need to go to sleep. Like, we all make better decisions when we're rest. And it was true, right? Like you're. We know that that affects our nervous system, that affects everything. And, you know, nutrition. We get to college and maybe all of that falls off the bus. Like all of these other aspects like we talked about are important for the success of everything, not just academics. Even in my classroom, sometimes I have granola bars or something for students who maybe they come into a test, they've been up all night, they haven't eaten anything. And I always tell my students, please don't pull an all nighter. But some of them work, some of them are parent, right? Like, so every circumstance is different. And I think also looking at that, when we're looking at students, every student is different, everyone learns differently, every person is different emotionally. So thinking about that in the classroom and you know, outside of the classroom.
[00:27:08] Jennifer Dantzler: Well, and that brings up another good point. Even about dietary restrictions. Right. We have a lot of our people who are on the spectrum in add that whether they're allergic, intolerant, or choosing to not eat a certain ingredient because it helps them with focus. And I'll see this all the time on like the Facebook groups where maybe we didn't do enough research ahead of time. And now parents are panicking because they get there for orientation and the child says there's only one gluten free option or there's only one dairy free option. And. And if food is really important for that person or you have specific needs, then that might be part of which college you go to as part of the decision making.
[00:27:42] Dr. Tara Williams: Absolutely. Especially when we're thinking about you don't want your student not having options. Or this gets very expensive to order. Uber eats. Right. I see those on other panels of the parents too. Like, oh my gosh, my student is spending all this money on Uber eats when there's a cafeteria. But like you said, the cafeteria may not have a dietary, you know, restrictions. Or maybe they're eating at 10 o' clock at night, which sometimes it just happens. Right? It just, it is like that the cafeteria is not always open. So that's a really good point in thinking about when you're looking at colleges, looking at that, thinking about the roommate situation, thinking about, is there some kind of cohort model, like looking at the entire picture. I think that we get really lost in that. I want to go to this school. This is what I want. Or this is the best school for academics. But academics are only us. One piece of what's going on when you're away.
[00:28:32] Jennifer Dantzler: Right? Right. If you're a professor listening or if you're trying to help support the professor who's helping your child. Like, are there tips on what professors can do to implement these accommodations accurately? Or, I mean, because I'm sure there are professors who are not intending to not implement something, but what are some
[00:28:51] Dr. Tara Williams: things we can do once again, that falling on the student? I write in my syllabus, you know, if you require accommodations or granted accommodations, please come talk to me. That's really important so that I know what's happening, how I can accommodate you. So I think first off, for students, making sure that they're telling their professors, because sometimes we just get a random email, which is fine too, if you don't want to come talk to me. But I think putting that language in your syllabus, making that friendly, talking about it. Hey, if, you know, if you need this, let me know. Also, sometimes students schedules with that extra time gets very sort of difficult to move around. Like you have a class at 2, you have a class at 4, you have an hour in between. But you have to have enough time for that 2:00 clock class, the double time to be able to make it to that four o' clock class. Sometimes that doesn't happen. So a student is now taking an exam before or after everybody else. And sometimes I think for different reasons, right. Maybe they don't want the other students to tell them what was on the exam. Maybe they don't want to write another exam or maybe. But I think that sometimes professors don't realize how difficult that is for a student to move that around. The testing center is only open, open so many hours. And then from the professor's perspective, I can also say that's difficult sometimes that it's not open a lot of the time for me when I've had a test and then a lab and the students have to be in lab on time. So how do we work that around and. But I would definitely say being accommodating with this accommodations. Look at your syllabus language once again. Write stuff on the board at the beginning of class and then while you're thinking about it, put it in your canvas. Hey, I've moved this assignment. Make sure that you see this. This maybe the week, the Sunday of send reminders on your canvas. I know it's on there, I know the due dates are on there. But sometimes having a little reminder, it takes five minutes. So why not do it? Maybe not making exams your entire semester. Not every student, as we know from the literature, right. Students with autism and ADHD sometimes don't do as well on those timed exams even if you have extra time. Maybe the questions are written in a certain way that they want to ask questions. But now they're in a private room room. So a lot of those things too. Thinking about let's not make exams everything I don't think in life I've ever had. Tara, your whole job depends on these three hours of your life. And I know that talking about what you were talking about with your kids, how many times I stayed up all night and didn't shower and then I have to try to figure out the rest of my week or I didn't eat or I didn't because I was so stressed about this one assignment that was my entire semester. Not everything has to be graded on one way. And then also something that professors do that I know a lot of my students really struggle with is in those group projects where they make them grade other students. That's really difficult for them. Or they feel like I wasn't graded correctly because people don't like me. And I think that's to me, one should have nothing to do with the other. I know we want to put a little pressure on students to do a good job, but for me that's something I've really seen my. The students that I work with for my business like really struggle with because they feel like maybe they weren't graded based on their work but based on their Social Security skills.
[00:31:46] Jennifer Dantzler: And the reality is they might have been because you might be asking 19 year olds to be sophisticated enough to truly just analyze the academics and not incorporate any of the social. Right. That's hard for sure.
[00:31:59] Dr. Tara Williams: And I remember when I had group projects, we'd all go to the library together, we'd work on it. We do things. Everything is done on a Google Doc or on a Google whatever. And I'm like, oh my God, stop doing that. Let's be together and figure out. Because that's when you really get frustration from kids, you know, from students as well because nobody knows what section they were doing. Is this right? Other people are putting stuff in and they're like, that looks nothing like what I did. And so I think also we really have to start teaching that social awareness again of go out and meet people and meet with your group and do things together so it doesn't become this transaction. Right. I mean I know that in my chemistry lab we go outside, we have a few minutes break. They're all their phone. So we have a rule that I'm like, leave your phones inside, go outside and talk to each other for five minutes. I know I'm guilty of the same thing. And now I think even with, with people always having headphones in, no one talks to other people. But it really affects socially how we do things. And I think working as we talked about earlier, working with people, working in a group, learning how to talk to one another, that's not always going to be done on a Google Doc or on a Google Drive.
[00:33:02] Jennifer Dantzler: Right? So if you are a parent of a neurodiverse, either high schooler or maybe graduated or still trying to find that next, where do people start?
[00:33:11] Dr. Tara Williams: Well, there are specialized schools like DU is one of them in Denver, there is Landmark in Florida, there's a few that just doing some, some quick Research you can find. And then the College Autism Network is a really great network that on their website they talk about a lot of schools and who's involved and where their training has taken place. So that's always a good support. But I definitely think once you've. Your students have found what they want want, then like you said, going to visit, even going to visit as a junior, seeing what life is like. I always say to, to other students from learning from my own experiences. When you're walking around the college, ask the students that you're walking around with, who are the mentors or whatever. What's a day really like here? If I'm neurodivergent, do you feel like that's supported? Are you neurodivergent?
[00:33:54] Jennifer Dantzler: Right.
[00:33:55] Dr. Tara Williams: Like you said, dietary. Is there food? Always open. Is there a gym? What are the rules? Because I do feel like we are obsessed with the school that we want for whatever reason and not thinking about the resources. I think there's no other way besides talking to other students. Ask them about their experience and see if that matches what you want.
[00:34:12] Jennifer Dantzler: Even just back to the accommodations piece for the neurodivergent person. Don't assume the professor knows first place to start there. And then I think we've talked a lot about the skills that we could be working on before we start college and being aware that again, it's about way more than whether they can pass. Pass the test.
[00:34:29] Dr. Tara Williams: Yes, right.
[00:34:30] Jennifer Dantzler: What do you want to be the biggest takeaway from this podcast? If you're a parent listening or a neurodivergent young adult, like, what's the biggest
[00:34:36] Dr. Tara Williams: takeaway to learn how to self advocate. I think it is one of the most difficult things to do even at my age to figure out like when I have to ask for help. But learning that asking for help is your best friend, whether that's from a friend, whether that's from a professor, whether that's from housing, I have tried everything with my roommate. This is not working. Or I would really like to be in a single next year because I have autism and the sensory is a lot for me. Maybe I could do better. Sometimes things are can be made special at the cafeteria and learning to be like, hey, I really don't want that on there. Could you please make that for me? So I would say learning that self advocation and for students in high, for parents in high school, of those students, helping them self advocate. So if you're going on vacation, have the student tell the teachers or professors at their dual enrollment, hey, like I'M going to go away. What do I need to do to be prepared when I come back? Can the work wait? Does it need to be done now? What do I need to do? Or if they miss an assignment, have them talk to their teachers themselves. Hey, I missed this. I know I missed it. What can I do to make up for it? Can I turn it in for credit? Can I? If I can't turn it in for credit, can you at least look at it, let me know if I'm in the right direction. Learning to say also I messed up and take accountability for it so that they can learn how to advocate after that, that that is something that I work on with my college students. Like if you miss something, it's not the end of the world. But if we keep doing that and you then they're feeling that shame and then it's a spiral that goes very bad very quickly. So learning how to just say I messed up, what do I do? How do I self advocate? How do I ask for help? These are skills that I think are helpful for anyone in life.
[00:36:11] Jennifer Dantzler: Absolutely. And again, after having my kids in high school and thinking back to the amount of times I might have sent the email to the teachers Right. When I should have had my child do it. Right. So let's wrap up with again, where can people find you? And so I know you're a professor and you will work with college students and you're out in California. Will you also work with students on Zoom, like who can access you?
[00:36:33] Dr. Tara Williams: I have about 11 or 12, you know, executive functioning tutors, coaches, whatever we want to call them, working for, for the company. We work with students virtually. We have some on the east coast, some in central time, so sort of all over the place. And we work on those that transition to college and then while they're in college. So we can work with students anywhere. And then a lot of times we have a request for face to face. We can do that too, to the best of our ability. Most of our coaches are either former K12 teachers or still K12 teachers. We work with a lot of people in their masters and their LMFT programs or things like that who want to do this work and want to work with these students. Students and had that experience working with students with autism and adhd. We also have subject tutoring for math, science, any of those things where we can sort of pair the student with the executive functioning skills and working with somebody who has experience working with, with neurodivergent students.
[00:37:27] Jennifer Dantzler: That sounds perfect. So where can they find you.
[00:37:29] Dr. Tara Williams: So Our website is innovativecollegiateconsultants.com we always do a free consultation that's usually with me to meet with the parents or the student and onboard board. Our socials are on there where we have like tips of the week and things like that as well.
[00:37:43] Jennifer Dantzler: Okay. So to also follow you on their social media preferred platform, right?
[00:37:47] Dr. Tara Williams: Yes.
[00:37:48] Jennifer Dantzler: Okay.
[00:37:48] Dr. Tara Williams: So everything's on the website. We always do a free consultation just to see if we're a good fit.
[00:37:52] Jennifer Dantzler: Dr. Tara Williams, we are so grateful for you being here. We really appreciate you taking the time to help give some insight, a little bit of forward thinking on some of these things for some of our neurodivergent adults. And we so appreciate you being here.
[00:38:04] Dr. Tara Williams: Thank you so much for having me. I hope it was helpful.
[00:38:06] Jennifer Dantzler: Very much so. If you need help or resources, whether you're a parent, someone on the spectrum, a business or a community organization who want to know more or need help or want to share resources, please reach out to
[email protected] thanks for joining us
[00:38:22] Jennifer Dantzler: on Shining through, inspiring Voices of Autism. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to follow us, leave a review and share it with others who want to celebrate neurodiversity. Until next time, keep Shining.
