[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome to Shining Through Inspire Voices of Autism with show host Jennifer Dantzler. My name is Veronica and I have Williams syndrome. Thank you for taking the time to learn more about the world of autism. If you enjoy what you hear today, don't forget to subscribe to this podcast.
[00:00:19] Speaker B: Hey, everyone, this is Jennifer Dantzler, and I'm the executive director and founder of Inspire nd, a nonprofit whose mission is to create truly inclusive communities through education and engagement. The goal of this podcast is to shop a light on real people and their stories in hopes of inspiring others who are on this journey of autism. Either themselves, their child, their loved one, their co worker. I truly believe ignorance is not bliss, and we cannot be inclusive communities if we do not understand the people in the community.
With autism now affecting 1 in 31 people, we need to get louder about this topic. We recognize that autism is a spectrum. There are a lot of people with a lot of different needs, a lot of resources available or none available. And we know that in every episode, we can't meet everyone needs for their specific interests. However, we hope that in each episode, you do gleam some kind of insight as to how you can help your child or yourself be a better advocate. And as we go through our podcasts, our goal really is to address the entire spectrum, the various needs, the various environments that we're going to be in. And we hope that there's something in every episode for each one of you. So let's get started.
We are here today with two very special guests. Today's a little bit of a different episode. It's actually a mother son duo. And let me explain what we're doing and why. So today we are here with Mason Johnston and Erica Johnston. I've known Erica for over a decade. She started getting involved in supporting our nonprofit back in 2014, and Mason was a part of one of our inclusion bridge programs. So when we were discussing what to talk about today, I thought it'd be great to get insight from both a mother and a son on his inclusion experience being in classrooms with children, children with autism. So, Mason and Erica, thank you so much for being here.
[00:02:04] Speaker A: Thank you for having us.
[00:02:06] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:02:07] Speaker B: Okay, so we're going to start with Mason first, because I think Mason has the best insight to all of this. Mason, how old are you?
[00:02:13] Speaker C: I am 14 years old.
[00:02:14] Speaker B: And you? So you just entered high school?
[00:02:16] Speaker C: Just entered high school.
[00:02:17] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:02:17] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:02:17] Speaker B: So how old were you when you had your first experience with our inclusion bridge program?
[00:02:22] Speaker C: That I can remember. It would be in kindergarten when I was probably about Five, I believe.
But I. There were. There are obviously a lot of experiences before that. Since the bridge program also started in pre K3 and pre K4, that's just the first that I can remember. It wasn't like this particular moment. It was just the whole experience. Since the bridge program, the whole point was inclusion. It included itself into my whole elementary school experience.
So that's. That's kind of all I remember. Everything was kind of one homogenous thing. It wasn't like this was the bridge program. This was school. It's like they're one thing, and that's how it really helped teach inclusion, I think.
[00:02:58] Speaker B: Okay, wonderful. So I actually should back up for a second. So when we talk about our inclusion bridge program, there was a private school in our area where we included our children with autism into that program with the support of our staff, and we blended into the typical classrooms. And so Mason was one of the students in those typical classrooms. So how many years were you in a classroom that included our bridge students?
[00:03:22] Speaker C: I believe from pre K3 to fourth grade, there are people in my actual classes. But for all years that I was in elementary school, there were people throughout the grades that I interacted with who were a part of the bridge program.
[00:03:34] Speaker B: Okay, and so tell me a little bit about what your experience was like.
[00:03:38] Speaker C: A lot of my experience, as I said, it's just kind of. It became the experience. How other people get to learn inclusion in that. Where they have to. Where things kind of start out like, this is different. And you have to kind of learned that this isn't different. What it started out to us is it kind of just immediately taught us, like, different is. That's how it is. That it's. That's normal. Being different is normal. Everyone's a different person. Everyone acts different. And as opposed to teaching us that this is some foreign thing or training us that this is something that you should avoid, when you see people acting different, that just kind of was like, everyone acts different. Some people, not like others. And that's. That's okay. That's how things are. And so it really helped teach us that you don't need a bat an eye. You don't need to stare. You don't need a point. That's just how life is. That's the world.
[00:04:22] Speaker B: That's really great to hear, because I think the true definition of inclusion is where one community is blended together with another community. And I think so often we say we're doing inclusion in various places, but it's not really inclusion. It's sort of one group of individuals in a placement of another organization, another community, but they're not really embraced together. Right. Would that be a fair statement?
[00:04:45] Speaker C: Yeah, I think it's exactly like that.
[00:04:47] Speaker B: Okay. And, you know, just recently, I heard an expression, and I thought, this is such a brilliant and simple expression. Expression, which is around focusing around neurodiversity is great minds don't all think alike. There's an old expression, great minds think alike. But actually what we're learning is great minds don't think alike. And I think you just very well explained that that's what you learned growing up is that different is not less. Not to be cliche. Right. But that we're all just different and need different supports. What do you think you learned from the experience?
[00:05:14] Speaker C: Such a young age, I think is important. Not just what I learned, but when I learned it. It's obviously harder to teach someone who's older something because they have to really kind of build that into your mind. But when you teach all the things that I learned when I was in elementary school, teach it so young, it doesn't just become something you've learned. It becomes something that just subconsciously ingrained in you. It's something that you can never forget. Yeah. Like things I remember learning is you don't bully, you don't point and stare. Like, you never thought, these people are different. These are just people. These are our friends. We learned that that's not something you do. That was something people never did. I don't actually think I can remember a single experience where people were bullying. People were pointing, because that was just never something that we even understood. Is any of those ideas of people being so different that you need to be mean or you need a bully? We just learned that you don't do those things.
[00:06:01] Speaker B: The older we get and we're not exposed to true inclusion, the more stereotypes and myths we have to debunk. Right. And so for you, it was just. This was just the way of the world. Do you remember having the support staff in that classroom? And do you remember. Was that awkward? Did you consider that staff that you could use, too, if you had a question like, how did it work logistically? So staff were in there to support the kids with autism. So that might have meant there might have been two teachers in your classroom. How did. Did that work? How did that work for you?
[00:06:32] Speaker C: That's exactly how it worked. There were kind of two teachers in that classroom, though they were usually helping the kids in the class who had autism. They also were people we all kind of engaged with. They were second teachers. They helped manage the class. If that ever needed to happen, we could ask them questions. I think I remember them helping even teach a few things at some point, as opposed to teaching us that this is like the person is over here with their teaching aide and like they engaged not just the student, but just the student's whole experience that just. That taught us that it's not different. It's right here.
[00:07:02] Speaker B: So I think for any of you that are supporting children in a typical classroom or trying to make that happen, I think that's very important because it really. We have to be intentional with. It's not us versus them or us or them. It's together.
Right? And unfortunately, I've seen a few times often in the public school where they do this co teach model and on paper, wonderful, right. The idea is you have the regular teacher and the special ed teacher and they're both taking turns teaching the class. But it doesn't always seem to work that way. It seems very staged. The teachers almost can't even fake it till they make it right. Because they have also not been trained in that. So that's probably parts that you were unaware of. But we did some very intentional teaching and working with the Holy Trinity staff, as well as our staff on how they could work together. And I remember little things, right, like our staff was certainly included in the. The staff lunches. They were then a part of Holy Trinity's community. And you didn't really see them as different, right? Or from a different.
How does it affect you today in terms of your philosophy regarding people with special needs?
[00:08:02] Speaker C: Well, I think a lot of that comes down to that same. We learned it so young. We got taught these things so young. Unlike a lot of public schools where you'll have separate classes for those with special needs, those with autism, they were already all in our classes. We had the same classes with them. They might not have been there all the time, but they were in our classes. They were our friends. We knew their names, we talked with each other, we sat with each other at lunch, we played together and all these things. As opposed to a public school where you don't. You don't ever meet these people. You might see them in the halls passing you, but you never get to talk to them. You ever get to know them. And I think that helped reinforce in the minds of them that these, these are different people. Like it's us versus them. You point and you stare. But for us, since they were in our classrooms, it was never these are different people. As I said, it's. They're right there. They're. They're. They're our friends. And so I think how that changes my philosophy is that they're not different people. They're people. You don't need to keep adding, like, a descriptor. You're like, these are different people. These are people.
They're people with special needs. They're just people. To me, like, I think that's the same thing with everyone in this at Holy Trinity who interacted with the bridge program is as they grow up, as I did, you. When you hear. You hear stereotypes or you see. If you go into a public school setting and you see the effects of not knowing these people, not knowing people with special needs, we see that and we're like, we don't understand it because that was. It was never our experience that these are different people. And that just makes it to our. Our whole philosophy. All of our philosophies on special needs are that are not special needs. They're just needs. These are people's needs, just as we have needs that are different from everyone else. Everyone has what you could call special needs because everyone needs different things. And so it was never, these are special needs. These are different people. It was always, these are just people, and this is what they need.
[00:09:38] Speaker B: Wow. Very well said. Very well said. We talked recently, and you were sharing about a couple of your experiences from middle school when it came to, in terms of advocating for people with special needs and supporting them.
[00:09:51] Speaker C: Do you remember that when you were.
[00:09:53] Speaker B: Sitting in my office? Because I think that's how it's affected you. You've become more aware and compassionate, like you said, just advocating for others, whether they have a label or not. So can you talk a little bit about your middle school experience and how you helped create that inclusive environment?
[00:10:08] Speaker C: When I went to public middle school, public middle school in Houston, many of these people in their elementary schools didn't have classes where they were with people with autism, with people with special needs. And so they were always just with people kind of, you could say, just like them that didn't have autism, that didn't have special needs, didn't develop these same they're just like us feelings. They're just like, these are different people. And so when you get into middle school and as more people assimilate into the same area, those people with special needs slowly became more assimilated into our classes. Like, I saw a few people with autism. Few people, A few people, special needs. In a couple of my classes, not A lot of them. But you usually see them in special needs classes, special education classes. What? A few of them ended up. End up in my classes. And you see that just people, they don't often include them. They're often sitting at their own tables. They're often just with the teacher or something like that. You don't see this kind of automatic inclusion where it's not like someone needs to invite you over to the table. People just sat there in the first place because, like, with Holy Trinity, we were all just. These are the same people. You wouldn't see someone in the corner of the room be like, let's not sit near him because he's different. You'd just be like, oh, it's another person. I could sit here next to this person. This. This other person. They're the same person in the mind of people who kind of were developed with that inclusion as opposed to those who weren't. And so when I went to the middle school and I saw that people didn't have this philosophy. They weren't the type of people who would just sit down next to the person because they just saw a person and another person. They'd be like, I see a different person and a person just like me. And they sit next to the person just like them, as opposed to sitting with the person who's not like them. I would be like, well, they're a person and a person. Like, they're. They're the same person. I'll come sit next to them. I'll talk with them. I'll help them. Like, it was never this. Avoid the different. Avoid different people. I just got to see how that philosophy of. Or how just that effect of growing up with people in an inclusive environment makes you just subconsciously more inclusive because it completely changes how you see the world.
[00:12:04] Speaker B: Yeah, okay. Wonderful. Okay, mom, we're going to start to pull you into this now, but first I'm going to ask Mason and then you the same question.
Were there any challenges you experienced during your Holy Trinity experience? Meaning, did the teachers have to simplify the work? Did you have to sit there while the teacher attended the whole time to a child having a behavioral challenge? Like, what were some of the challenges you might have seen?
[00:12:26] Speaker C: I did see quite a few of those challenges. Obviously, there were people with autism, people with special needs, and so they acted different. They had. There were certain behavior problems. There were certain. There were outbursts in class, all things like that. And they did have to see. A teacher attended that class, could get held up. Stuff. Stuff like that. As you would expect with people with autism, What I saw in how that affected the people in our class is that was normal. When that would happen. You wouldn't have everyone staring at the person. You wouldn't have everyone pointing or shocked that that was life. And you're not gonna start ostracizing the person for that. You're just like, well, that's that person. That's their needs. That's what they do. Everyone acts different. Everyone has different needs. And so that just kind of told us or taught us unintentionally even, that we don't need to make a big deal out of nothing. It's. This is how the person acts. This is how. This is what they need. We're not gonna do anything.
[00:13:16] Speaker B: So you didn't feel like your education was hindered or simplified at all because those kids were in there who had other needs?
[00:13:23] Speaker C: I think, if anything, our education was bettered because it taught us something that you can't teach from a book. You can't teach inclusion from a book because it's something that you really have to. You have to develop, you have to observe it, and then you have to practice it, and it's not something you can just teach.
[00:13:38] Speaker B: Wonderfully said. Okay, mom, what are your thoughts on any challenges or concerns? Did you have any concerns initially and those concerns were proven false or, like, what were your thoughts on some of the challenges?
[00:13:51] Speaker A: I think the biggest challenge with any new initiative anywhere, of any topic. Right. Is always communication. And with schools, it's communication between the school and the parents. So once the parents understood what was going on, once the school communicated about the program, informed us, let us know how it was going to be implemented, executed, once we had a chance to ask questions, get answers, that sort of thing? Um, I don't think that there were any major challenges that I knew of. When the program was first rolled out, I was not on the board of directors of the school. I later was on the board of directors. And so I definitely would have been made aware of any huge, huge challenges along the way. But again, there weren't many that I knew of, and I definitely didn't experience any. I think that with elementary school, those classrooms are always full of a lot of distractions. Right. That's one of the things that all the kids were working on. My son, although I am so proud of him, was not a perfect student himself. What?
[00:14:50] Speaker B: Not Mason? He's perfect.
[00:14:52] Speaker A: So did occasionally students in the inclusion program have a difficult behavior? Well, of course. But did my kiddo have a difficult behavior? On a particular Wednesday. Well, yeah, maybe those things I don't see as challenges. That's just elementary school, right? Or school in general. I do think that the behavior techniques that we all learned as students, teachers and parents, we're all an added value. And any challenge we may have had that completely like, erases it. You know what I mean? Like, if you're looking at like a scale, I know I personally would interact with the inclusion staff as much as I could to learn different tips and techniques and things like that for behavior management, as I've heard you say a lot of times. Right. It's just behavior, or what do you say?
[00:15:35] Speaker B: It's just human behavior, it's not autistic behavior.
[00:15:37] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:15:38] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:39] Speaker A: So what I can say is what the experience wasn't and what I think a lot of parents may have feared at first is that it was going to be a lot of accommodations that might take away from their students experience. And again, we didn't experience that. We had classroom holiday parties, we had field day, we had pep rally, we had our infamous Monster Mash Halloween party, which is full of loud music and controlled chaos. And within those events, it did become part of our school culture. And I'm very proud to say we would take a second and ask if there were accommodations that could be made to, to help include the bridge program as much as possible. You know, I'm very proud of that. I like seeing that change in our school. I'm not sure I can think of many requests that were ever made like that the program ever made of the school.
Because the point of the inclusion program was to include those into the activities that their typical peers would be in. So I do remember incorporating like more gluten free snacks, labeling the snack tables better, that sort of thing. I remember creating a school culture that embraced headphones to accommodate loud noises. I. I mentioned the Monster Mash. It was, you know, a dj, lots of music, all that sort of thing. I remember some students, you know, needing that to be able to participate. And then I remember teachers always making sure that there was like a quiet space, like somewhere if someone was sort of on sensory overload and needed to calm down. Those are some accommodations that I do remember. They were all small and they were things that didn't disrupt the normal ecosystem of the school. I do have to take this podcast time to give a shout out though, to two of our room parents, Tammy and Grammy. So they were actually room parents when my daughter went through, because Mason went through, but my daughter also went through for a period of Time with the bridge program. They are complete inclusion champions. They chose to completely modify the classroom party menus to accommodate some pretty strict food restrictions that some of the kids had. And spoiler alert, no kid ever noticed that they were gluten free, casein free. I learned words I didn't even know, but they were, they were free of all of the things so that the students could participate. But what it did was create a situation, probably for one of the first times, where the parent didn't have to provide a special lunch for the student and everyone just ate the same thing with no differences. And I think that parents with special needs always expect to carry a heavier burden, always have to do extra things to make their kid feel like part of the group. Shout out to Tammy and Grammy for taking that burden off of that particular parent, at least for that time period.
Letting everyone just all do the same things. It was very cool.
[00:18:18] Speaker B: Well, and as you said, I mean, it just, it made everyone better. It just, you know, like the kids did not suffer for having gluten free donuts or whatever it was, and it just truly created for an inclusive environment. Let's go back to what you said in the beginning about the communication, because I do think that's really important.
I know a lot of our parents of children with special needs struggle with how much to say, when to say it, who to say it to.
And I know personally we did a lot at Holy Trinity where we would often go into classrooms and talk to the classes about, hey, you're going to have this child in here, this might be some of the supports he needs. And I personally have never had a backfire. I've never had it to where it didn't help people understand.
And as I pretty much say in every one of my trainings and podcasts, ignorance is not bliss. And so from a parent's perspective, I'm glad to hear that what actually helped it was the communication from the school, not making it some mystery, right?
[00:19:15] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. I don't think that anyone benefits from being undercover, especially in those sorts of situations. The inclusion program became part of who the school was. It became a part of their identity.
I would say any family that wasn't comfortable with it, then we probably just weren't the school for them at the time. And, and that's okay. That's why there's lots of different school options for lots of different families who could participate in that. It kind of broke my heart. We saw it happen a time or two. I mean, it wasn't all sunshine and roses. Right. It's not like every family that walked through the door just got it, but they definitely weren't going to fit in with the culture. Right, if they didn't get it. And it kind of broke my heart because I knew that their kiddos were going to miss out on an experience that would make them better. It's not always for everyone, I guess.
[00:20:03] Speaker B: Well, and to your point of really embracing it, I do remember when you had your head of school have to turn over. And then I remember getting the call saying, we want to have you help be a part of the interview process because we want to make sure whoever we hire next embraces this philosophy too. And I think that's so important, like from an administration, it's got to be a top down ownership. It can't just be in one classroom because I believe at one point. So, Mason, almost every year you had, like you said, either someone in your classroom or you knew someone maybe in the other class. It wasn't just pockets, it's a true embracing of it as a philosophy, as a school. Okay, so, Mason, let's ask you if someone listening to this podcast was considering adding an inclusion aspect to their program, whether it's their gymnastics class, their church, Sunday school, their educational environment, what's one piece of advice you would give them about doing it right is that you.
[00:20:58] Speaker C: Never made a big deal out of it. You never made a big deal out of anything. I don't think I ever remember having sitting down with a teacher or someone and them saying like, hey, these people, they have special needs, they have differences. There's a teaching aide who's going to be with them, they're going to need help on occasion, they're not going to be in your class all the time. And I feel like if you did something like that, if you made such a big deal out of it, made everyone like so aware that these are different people, then it kind of defeats the point of inclusion.
I think, as you said, to truly include. You can't make them different people. They're just people.
And I think that's what you really need to realize if you're gonna try to be as inclusive as possible, is that they aren't different people, they're just people. You don't need to make some big announcement, big fanfare over everything. Just include. Just, just do it. Just do it.
[00:21:47] Speaker B: Just do it. Okay. All right, Erica, what are your thoughts on that one? What's one piece of advice you would give someone who's wanting to be sure.
[00:21:53] Speaker A: They'Re more inclusive so we mentioned clear communication and expectations. Obviously very important for all the stakeholders. The more that I learned about the program, the more that I realized the pre work that went on behind the scenes that you did to prepare the student for the inclusion opportunity, that was really key. I feel like your organization was very thoughtful about the way that it was done, the way that it was presented to the school, the training that was done for the teachers. That is something that all people that would want to embrace something like this. There's certain steps, there's certain groundwork that needs to be laid, and I think that's important if you want it to be successful. And then if you're blazing a trail for the first time, because that's what a lot of these programs are. I think there's gonna be lots of lessons learned. I'm sure there were at Holy Trinity. And so lean on the experts. Autism is so unique to each individual, so it's hard to just think through every single scenario that's gonna happen.
Lean on those who know what they're doing. Right. Who have the expertise that we don't have or that the organization that you're trying to include into most likely doesn't have. And the more that people do that, then the more that becomes mainstreamed and the more people become accustomed to it and then the dominoes just start to fall. Right. And then as Mason has said 50 times during this podcast. Right. Then it's just the way it is.
[00:23:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:10] Speaker A: It's. It's not new and it's not different. It's just this is how we walk through life together.
[00:23:16] Speaker B: And I think the point about lessons learned is really true because I do remember there were. We had a lot of two steps forward, one step back. I remember early on when we tried to include a few of our kiddos, like in preschool, but they were at a reinforcement schedule where they needed some kind of reinforcement every 30 seconds to minute. And then we're asking them to sit in circle time and not disrupt the other kiddos. But if every 30 seconds they had to get up and leave the group and come back or it just was disruptive. Right. So then we realized we probably need to have a minimum requirement of how long they can attend in order to be in circle time. But if they needed a 30 second break in centers, that was okay. Right. And really trying to figure out what was the most realistic and beneficial opportunities for everyone involved. I know. You know, one of the workshops we do that's on our website is Roadmap to Inclusion. And I talk a lot about it in that workshop on what are the prerequisites needed. And you know, I'm a firm believer in inclusion. Just for the sake of inclusion is not good. Right? It has to be that the children will benefit from it. So I'm actually going to go off script here for a second. Mason, how do you think the children in the bridge program benefited from the inclusion?
[00:24:29] Speaker C: What did you see the educational experience they got to have in a regular public school experience? Most likely they aren't included yet. They haven't gotten to be an inclusive environment. And that means that when they end up in one, maybe later in elementary school, it might be hard for them to learn because the people haven't been conditioned or have developed that just kind of natural inclusion, that subconscious inclusion. And so it can be hard for them because they may be bullied, they may be ostracized and, and such. And so that hinders their educational experience not because they're not ready, but because the community that was there for them was never ready when it came to the bridge program. Instead of just preparing the student or preparing the individual, it prepared the community. It paved the road. It made the red carpet for them so that they had an educational experience where they weren't bullied, they weren't ostracized. They were just people in the community who got to learn the same as everyone else without disruption.
[00:25:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay, wonderful. Okay. Mason, how do you think the teachers in Holy Trinity saw that program?
[00:25:32] Speaker C: I think the teachers, since they interacted so much and kind of got the same a similar experience that the students did in that their teachers, just part of the community, they're just people, got kind of a similar thing out of it as we did. They got. These are just students. They're not different students. They're just my students. And I, I'll teach them just the same as I would any other student.
[00:25:51] Speaker B: Erica, what do you think on that as far as the teachers go? Because I know you were the board president at one point, so I think you had a little bit more insight to some of the teachers thoughts and perspectives.
[00:26:00] Speaker A: I did. And I think that there are people that are never going to adopt a vision or don't want to do anything that perceives as more work. And so in true transparency, every teacher was not an adopter of it. Of course, not every teacher necessarily had to touch the program. And I think it's unfortunate because the world is an inclusive place. Honestly, I think that those people really missed out on the magic of being able to teach in those sorts of classrooms. I know when we had our first graduates or some of our first graduates from the school, they had been in the program since pre K4 and there was not a dry eye in the gym the morning that they graduated and went through the graduation ceremony. One of the students was the valedictorian from the class. He was in your bridge program and got to give the commencement address. And all the teachers were just beside themselves, obviously very proud knowing that they contributed to that moment to like getting him there.
But then, you know, as families, we also felt proud because we knew that we had helped foster an environment that then allowed for that success to happen. So I know that program helped change a lot of teachers minds in regards to inclusion. The school was small, so they got to do it within a small setting. So that's probably worth mentioning. It was not a classroom full of 30 kids. They were much smaller classrooms, I really do believe and still keep in touch with a lot of the teachers and the impact they got to see directly with the growth of the child on a lot of different ways. You know, a lot of times it wasn't academic, but you know, almost always it was social, it was behavioral, it was all of the other things, the soft skills. They really got to make a profound impact on the students. I also know that the training that your organization provided was, was huge. I know they love that. They saw it as a benefit for their entire classroom management. Again, it wasn't helpful for just the one inclusion student that was in there. It was for all of the kiddos in the class.
[00:28:04] Speaker B: I do remember that there would often be times teachers would come and say, hey, I need some behavioral tools.
Actually your kids are some of the better behaved kids. And I need some suggestions for the other kids in the classroom that maybe don't have that additional support staff with them.
[00:28:19] Speaker A: Yep, for sure.
[00:28:20] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And so I think you also brought up a really good point that is hard to talk about. But I think for parents listening, having buy in from that environment, whether it's that classroom, that gymnastics teacher, that Sunday school teacher is really going to help set them up for more success. And so I think sometimes we don't do enough prep work. Again, you're getting your child ready to go to a gymnastics class. Maybe you're meeting with the owner of the organization and saying, who do you think? Which teacher do you think is the best fit to embrace the philosophy and the vision, as you said, Erica, as opposed to maybe the best gymnastics teacher. But it's more who's going to see our child as Mason You've said several times, just see our child as a child, not a child with special needs. And I think we don't always do enough of that prep and really try to get the teacher's Bianca or whatever class we're going to be in. Mom, what do you think he learned from the whole experience? From your perspective, what do you think he learned?
[00:29:18] Speaker A: So I think both of my kids, because as I mentioned, his sister did go through learn compassion. I think they learned how to be a friend with someone who possibly views friendship in a different way. Those with autism sometimes make friends a little differently or friendships look different than maybe typical peer friendships.
He is able to pick up on potential differences quicker and then not exclude because of that. You know, he kind of has some extra radar because he has been around those specifically on the spectrum.
[00:29:50] Speaker B: But I think to that point, Mason, you probably are more aware, especially now, even as, you know, you get older, into high school, you're probably gonna see someone who maybe be like, oh, I think they might be on the spectrum. But I think what's different about you is your first thought is, how can I support them? Not how can I exclude them. Right?
[00:30:08] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:30:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:09] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. How do I include them? How can I adapt? How can I communicate differently? Those sorts of things. I think there's a wisdom to that. There. Again, having gone through the experience, they also learned what learning supports look like in the classroom in a very real way. And the fact that obviously people learn differently. I know that can be like a cliche phrase, but it's real, and it became real for us, and it was helpful. When our daughter was diagnosed with dyslexia, she had the knowledge that people have diagnosis can affect learning, and then we were able to, like, navigate the challenges that she experienced because of her dyslexia. And she had some context for it. You know, she had a file folder in her brain for learning differences, learning disabilities support. She had seen that, like, in real life played out in the classroom and that people accepted it. I really think it just made it easier. Now, dyslexia isn't autism, of course, but she knew from her classroom experiences what being pulled out looked like, what receiving extra help look like, and that it was okay.
[00:31:09] Speaker B: You know, accommodation was not a swear word.
[00:31:11] Speaker A: Right. And it wasn't the end of the world.
[00:31:13] Speaker B: Right.
[00:31:13] Speaker A: And so those are things as a mom that I really, really value. Again, walking down a road that we didn't really realize that we were going to be walking down. When she was enrolled in pre K3. Right. That we would be dealing with that. And then being in the inclusive setting also gave us some really good conversations at dinner time sometimes. And I was the pto mom and all of those sorts of things. You know, I became friends with these people as well. You know, they. They became friends, and so I would ask about them. You know, their family became part of our friend group and. And so forth. And so the kids would come home with stories or with what happened during the day, and we'd have a chance to have really good conversations about, how did that make you feel? Or what did you think? Or how can you help? Such and such just gave us more things to talk about in a different way.
[00:32:01] Speaker B: Well, I think as Mason, you talk about, it just became more normalized. It was okay for you to ask the question, like, mom, so and so might have been having a challenge on the playground. Why do you think that was? Or what could I have done to help? Yeah. And then Erica, with you, I want to wrap up with. What do you see the differences are in Mason now as he's growing up and getting into some real life situations.
[00:32:22] Speaker A: Mason and even Emma, both my kids, they stop and ask themselves when they come upon a situation or when a situation has presented itself in them again, whether we're in the grocery store, whether we're in a very public place, or when they're at school. Could this be autism? Is this another learning disability?
Like, what's going on there? Instead of just assuming, well, they're weird or why are they doing that?
[00:32:49] Speaker B: They're rude.
[00:32:50] Speaker A: Right.
[00:32:50] Speaker B: That they're, like, encroaching on my personal space in line and target or something.
[00:32:54] Speaker A: Exactly. They stop and I think they just. They run it through that filter. Mason said it a million ways, Right. That was just ingrained in them. He has. He has a permanent filter that he can run that through. You know, if everyone just took a second figure out how to install that filter in them and think about what might be going on in that situation, I think we would just all be better off and we would approach people with more understanding. And so, again, when I enrolled both of my kids in that private school, I had no idea that this was going to be a part of the outcome of it. You think about, oh, I want them to learn their ABCs or one, two, threes. I want them, you know, excelled academics, you know, all of the shiny things that were on the enrollment postcard, you know, the dreams you had for them. And I did get all of those things, But I also got this added benefit of them really growing up to be pretty great people that I am very proud of. And I think that the inclusion program was. Was a big part of that.
[00:33:50] Speaker B: Mason, you agree with that?
[00:33:51] Speaker C: Yes, I completely agree.
[00:33:53] Speaker A: You think you're a great person?
[00:33:54] Speaker C: I think Chloe Trinity did a great part in contributing to that. Yes.
[00:33:59] Speaker B: Well, and I vote yes for Mason being a great person. Okay, Mason, one last question for you. If there are parents listening, parents of children with autism, are there other special needs? What's something you want them to hear?
[00:34:11] Speaker C: You don't have a child who's different from everyone. You don't have a child that's separate from everyone. You have a child. You have a child who's like everyone else, who can be with everyone else, who can be friends with everyone else. You just have to find the right people that know that too, that know that. Different doesn't mean go away. Different means good.
[00:34:34] Speaker B: Well, if we don't shouldn't end on that. I think that's. That's all that we have to say on that. Mason and Erica, thank you so much for being here and sharing your experience about inclusion and hopefully help some parents learn some things to do. And if you're listening and want to start any kind of inclusion program in any form or fashion, you can reach out to
[email protected] and we can certainly help you. On our website is our roadmap to inclusion. Likewise, if you'd like to get in touch with Erica or Mason to talk more about their experience, you can also reach
[email protected] and thanks for listening today. If you need help or resources, whether you're a parent, someone on the spectrum, a business or a community organization who want to know more or need help or want to share resources, please reach out to us at info.
[00:35:21] Speaker C: Do you know the most important factor in your company's success? It's your people. They're the heart of your business. So how do you harness this potential? Insperity can help. From recruiting and onboarding to employee development and retention, we'll help you build a stronger, more resilient organization. See the difference the right approach to human resources can make? Because how UHR matters. Find out
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[00:35:49] Speaker A: Thanks for joining us on Shining Voices of Autism. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe. Subscribe, leave a review and share it with others who want to celebrate neurodiversity. Until next time, keep shining.
