[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to Shining Inspiring Voices of Autism with show host Jennifer Dantzler. My name is Michael and I have autism. Thank you for taking the time to learn more about the world of autism. If you enjoy what you hear today, don't forget to follow this podcast.
[00:00:14] Speaker B: Hey everyone, this is Jennifer Dantzler, and I'm the executive director and founder of inspirend, a nonprofit whose mission is to create truly inclusive communities through education and engagement. The goal of this podcast is to shine a light on real people and their stories in hopes of inspiring others who are on this journey of autism. Either themselves, their child, their loved one, their co worker. I truly believe ignorance is not bliss, and we cannot be inclusive communities if we do not understand the people in the community.
With autism now affecting 1 in 31 people, we need to get louder about this topic. We recognize that autism is a spectrum. There are a lot of people with a lot of different needs, a lot of resources available or none available. And we know that in every episode we can't meet everyone's needs for their specific interest.
However, we hope that in each episode you do gleam some kind of insight as to how you can help your child or yourself be a better advocate. And as we go through our podcast, our goal really is to address the entire spectrum, the various needs, the various environments that we're going to be in. And we hope that there's something in every episode for each one of you. So let's get started.
[00:01:21] Speaker C: Today we have a very special guest and we're going to actually be talking about swim and water safety, which is very, very important. I have my friend Emily Hanson here, who she and I were trying to figure out, have known each other for probably over 10 years, was local to the humble Kingwood area in the Houston area. And once I first heard about a swim instructor who knew how to help children with autism learn how to swim, I glommed onto her and referred people to her. Because as we'll talk about in today's podcast, it's not easy to find in swim instructor who knows how to work with our children. And so it's a very, very important, passionate topic for me. Many of you might know that drowning is the number one cause of death in autism, but a lot of our children and young adults on the spectrum, they love to gravitate towards water and don't always understand the dangers of water. Unfortunately, even in the Houston area, we've had children and adolescents die in detention ponds, neighbors, pools, that sort of thing because of this gravitation towards water. Yet we know that our Parents just can't go to the local neighborhood swim instructor to get instructions on water safety and swimming. So, Emily, thank you so much for being here.
[00:02:30] Speaker D: Thank you so much for having me.
[00:02:32] Speaker C: So why don't you tell me a little bit about how you got started in working in with swim instruction and safety in the world of autism.
[00:02:39] Speaker D: Okay. So I've been in the aquatics industry since 1996. In 2009, my daughter had a near drowning accident. She was pulled from the water, unresponsive, was able to recover, and she has no lingering injuries from that. So I really felt dedicated after that happened to us to put everything I had into learning more about teaching everybody. I didn't ever want another parent to feel the way that I felt. In 2014, I had a set of twins brought to me where I was working. They were both on the spectrum. I felt helpless. I felt like I really owed so much to that family to be able to assist in giving the parents some peace of mind. And when that lesson finished, I felt like I just didn't know how to help. It was very discouraging. I cried.
So what happened was, member of my adult swim team that I was working with had a child, including kids, which is now Inspire. We decided to start swim team for some of the clients there. So we had about 15 swimmers come with their BCBAs and RBTs and we set up stations. And so I would rotate through all of the stations, giving instructors to the rbts who got in the water with each child, and we were able to introduce skills and adapt to each individual child. And that's where I got most of my knowledge. I really built off of that experience. We did that for almost two years. That was probably the most I've ever learned about safety for children ever in my life.
[00:04:13] Speaker C: Wow. Okay. That's wonderful. And I would venture to say some of those strategies you learned apply to neurotypical children as well.
[00:04:20] Speaker D: Oh, yes. But as I got more and more into working with children with autism, I realized that it's so much like I was already doing. I tend to use short words and phrases. Some of the RBTS and BCBAs told me that I kind of had an ABA type approach. I always did first and then statements before I even really knew what they were. I learned over time how to communicate with any kid that got in the water, whether they were 6 months old or 85.
[00:04:49] Speaker C: First of all, if you have a good swim instructor that you're already working with and they might not know the world of autism, we can help them become better instructors. It doesn't have to have some fancy certification or title after their name, right?
[00:05:01] Speaker D: Absolutely. I don't have any special certification or title. I've done certifications over the years for swimming. I don't even know if there is a education out there for children with autism having swim lessons. I think there are multiple facilities around the country that say they offer that over time. And working with kids on the spectrum and talking to families was that it was kind of like they were given the experience that I had given to the family with the twins, that the instructors just didn't really know what they were doing. I have mentored some coaches up. I think the biggest thing is adaptability to the child, learning how they communicate from their parents. Just asking lots of questions before you start to create constructive environment where they can learn as much as they can.
[00:05:46] Speaker C: How do swim lessons for people on the spectrum look different than swim lessons? Maybe if you're a neurotypical child, they're actually really similar.
[00:05:54] Speaker D: For me, I can give you kind of the rundown of what I do. I always try to make eye contact and greet. High fives are fist bumps, so I can kind of gauge what their consent for touch is. I like to make kids wait at the edge of the pool and see how impatient they get and make that a routine habit. For every time they approach the water, they have to wait outside of it, like on the. Sit on the edge or sit on the step or standing up near an entrance. I think that a structured schedule is really important. Sometimes things can get boring or overstimulating when it's too much repetition. So I like to cycle through my lessons. So I might do one skill for a certain amount of repetitions. Like maybe I'm going to do water on the face five times and then we're going to take a break or we're going to do kicking our feet at the step for 10 seconds, then we're going to stop and then using fun to do that, like with kicking the feet also, that can create a splash for kids that are overstimulated by water on their face or if they just don't care for that sensory experience. So there's lots of ways to make all the different skills adaptable. Being aware of those sensory triggers. Like I said, it's good to have a conversation with the parents first to get an idea of how a child might react to certain things. Things they do like, things they don't like. There are times where it's going to be uncomfortable for the swimmer. I try to make sure that Everything's introduced slowly. I think that it's very important to be patient. There is such an urgency to move really quickly through lessons so that the swimmer is safer, faster. But in spite of that urgency, I always felt like I really needed to slow down and give them the best experience for more long term success. I think praise often is really important.
Different kinds of praise for different kinds of experiences. Like some kids need a good job every time, or a high five, or a hug or I've used like token systems where it's like if you show me how you can put your face in the water, face in, you get this toy, face in, get this way, like work up to five toys and then they get their break to play with the toys and so kind of reward them with something tangible as well. I try to make commands instead of ask questions. I like to do the short phrases like face in, kick, kicks, lay back. But I also try to explain in regular sentences. So usually when I'm giving instruction, I'll do verbal sentence and then I'll break it down to the this, this, and this. And then give the swimmer a chance to demonstrate on their own. And sometimes demonstrating myself will help them in that process as well. I think the verbiage is really important.
Every child learns differently. So I think that knowing when to go on to the next step is really important. That's something that really comes from experience. Experience and practice. If I have a swimmer that doesn't want to put their face in the water, doesn't like face on the water, can't be splashed, then we want to start with trickles of water down the back of the head. So just feeling the experience of water going down the back of their head and neck and back and then increasingly come forward to the face. And it can be from little droplets to a small stream and work your way up to full facial immersion. So those are some of the things that I do. And I do that with all of my swimmers. I just do it in different ways based on the level of fear, like what they react going to be. I've learned how to deal with behaviors that come from not wanting to participate for whatever reason. So that's kind of the rundown of how I build my lessons.
[00:09:19] Speaker C: Yeah. So that's incredible. And it is true that it sounds like by nature you are absolutely, you know how to do aba. As you were talking, I wrote down what you were saying in terms of like behavioral terms. And yes, you use imitation, you use positive reinforcement, you use frequent reinforcement, use shaping, you use the consistent routine all of those things are exactly what ABA is. And so sometimes when people talk about ABA and it's like all ABA is is human behavior, right? It's not necessarily even about autistic behavior. It's about human behavior. And I think sometimes we try to make more of it than it is and say what it's not. But, like, literally what you just said is absolutely how it should be done. And to your point, with. With all kids or anyone learning how to swim, the only differences for you might be the amount of time it takes to go through those steps. Right? So you talked about the water trickling on the back of the neck and then more of a pour down the back of the neck, then maybe to the face, which we would also call a task analysis. The key is, though, it's going to take longer for your person with autism than your neurotypical kid. Do you have a feel for, like, what a parent should expect when starting swim lessons, as far as the amount of time, or do you give any kind of expected parameter?
[00:10:33] Speaker D: I think what's really important to do is communicate with the parents always. So if I know that I'm starting with a child that is really going to need to take their time more than another, then I'm going to need to break down what I need to be working on and why those skills are important to start and then also let them know my plan going forward. I won't be able to say exactly how long any of that's going to take with any swimmer. I've had some swimmers that swim for six seasons with me still learning new skills. So that communication will help the parents understand. Like, these are small goals. We're not looking at the end goal right away. The small goals will get us there. And then that gives a sense of, like, what the parents need to know. Like, are they accomplishing anything? Like, we're doing this and it's taking forever. Like, what has my child learned? Children on the spectrum. And with my neurotypical kids, it's the same. Like, I have infants and small toddlers that don't talk yet, so they can't tell me when they're afraid. They don't know how to tell me. They don't want to do that. And same for children on the spectrum. They're not easily able to communicate always, not as a general rule, but communication is a little bit different. Have the parents do things at home. If you know your child doesn't like water on their face, start introducing it as young as possible. That's a huge, huge Thing that I preach about for water safety and drowning prevention. That's probably my. One of my biggest struggles in swim lessons. For any swimmer, getting the kiddo comfortable with putting their face in the water or getting their face wet at all. When a swimmer swims with their head up and their legs are dangling underneath them, they can't maintain their body position. It's called drowning position. And that swimmer is going to lose the ability to keep their head above water. Being able to move in a forward motion in the water, the person needs to be horizontal to the water surface.
[00:12:16] Speaker C: And to that point, about the parent involvement in doing things at home, I usually give that example when I'm trying to get my parents to follow through with some behavioral things where I'll say, if you were trying to stop smoking or trying to lose weight, but only doing that five hours a day while you're at clinic or therapy and not doing it the other hours of the day, are you going to lose weight or stop smoking? No. Right. So why would we expect our nonverbal children to become verbal only working on that five hours a day? And to your point, there are things that parents can do at home that can hugely impact their safety and also help improve your progress. Each week they're helping contribute to that. That's huge. So it's not a drop them off, you're gonna teach them how to swim and they're gonna go right.
[00:12:59] Speaker D: It's definitely a partnership for sure. I have some big no no's and they're not no no's. Across the swim community, I think there's lots of different methods. I think there's also a little bit of lack of information and experience with people who, who don't have the experience they think they have. So for example, my daughter had a drowning accident. She was using her floaties and then she took her floaties off and thought she could still swim. So I have a big passion about anything in the water that's going to be helpful if it's going to be harmful as well. So things like goggles and puddle jumpers and earplugs and things like that too. For the sensory reasons.
I know that parents want to protect their children from having too much sensory overload or have a behavior or want to elope or self harm because they're doing something that's really scary for them. Those tools that are often used in swim lessons can be a detriment because if your child falls in the water and they don't have their goggles on and they don't have their life jacket on and they don't have earplugs and they're uncomfortable. They're likely to forget anything you've taught them or not try at all. They're only focusing on what they wish they had.
[00:14:13] Speaker C: Wow, that's huge. That I don't know that I ever thought about that. Because we're giving them sort of a false crutch. And then to your point, when it's not there, they're going to panic, literally. Yeah. Lose all the skills that you had thought about, that you had taught.
[00:14:25] Speaker D: Exactly.
[00:14:25] Speaker C: That's huge. Okay, do you have other no no's.
[00:14:27] Speaker D: I don't agree with saying no or giving any kind of neg reinforcement. I've accidentally or, you know, out of habit being a mom, said no or not this way. I think that rephrasing things and saying, next time do this is really helpful. Sometimes it can be attention seeking. Like if I say to do something or if I say to stop, they're gonna start a behavior that might be disruptive or distracting. I do like for the children to be able to have like self stimulatory behavior to kind of like get excitement out unless it becomes distract.
[00:15:05] Speaker C: Maybe you have a swim instructor who tries to do a little bit more. Maybe too much traditional method, more discipline than reinforcement. It doesn't work. The child's fighting, kicking and screaming, going to swim lessons, and then they don't go to any more swim lessons because that was too aversive for the child, Right?
[00:15:24] Speaker D: Absolutely.
[00:15:24] Speaker C: And so I think what I'm hearing from you is swim lessons should be fun or at very least tolerable because it is such an important issue. Is there a difference between swim lessons and water safety for our families that are like, I don't care if my child ever learns how to swim, fine. They don't need to be able to swim laps in the pool, but they do need to understand water safety. Right. To your point of the prone versus laying down and learning how to survive, is there a difference? What could we help parents understand with that?
[00:15:54] Speaker D: I don't think a child can be water safe in a pool or a pond or the ocean or any body of water, unless. Unless the child knows how to find the exit. I teach survival swimming skills. My kids are gonna go in the water and then when the water's on their face and they don't want it on their face, they're gonna roll to the back to get their relief. And if they're just gently kicking their feet, they're gonna find an edge and learn how to climb out. I've had a lot of success with that. I had a girl with almost zero comprehension, and she learned how to push herself off the bottom of the pool. Oh, and she was deaf. Push herself off the bottom of the pool, roll over, and float on her back for 10 seconds. So I really think that it's the best thing ever to teach the swimming. As far as understanding why we need to be safe in the water, like, why we talk about water safety. I think that swim lessons are what creates safety in the water, if that makes sense.
[00:16:47] Speaker C: Like, let's not think of swim lessons in terms of traditional swim lessons. And that might be questions that a parent should ask their swim instructor? Is our big priority right now is water safety survival skills? You know, using those words and asking the swim instructor more specifically, what skills, what survival skills are you teaching? Because I do not care if they know the backstroke versus the side stroke versus what have you, but I need my child to be able to survive.
[00:17:13] Speaker D: That can be just misunderstanding and communication, too. So when parents say, I don't care if my kids know how to swim, they might go into swim lessons thinking that they're learning traditional freestyle. They're going to be swimming with your face in and breathing on the side and getting fancy with it. But swim lessons are, in my opinion, should be intended for survival first, and then it can be for fun later.
[00:17:34] Speaker C: I love that. Swim lessons should be intended and created for survival first. I love that phrase. Thank you. Okay, so I know here locally in the Houston area, there's an organization that you've worked with called All Things Swim, and there are a couple instructors there that are more trained in this method. Can you talk about that a little bit?
[00:17:51] Speaker D: I'm the founder and previous owner of All Things Swim. I took all of my, like, knowledge over the years and was able and blessed to be able to open a facility in the humble area. I have trained and mentored several swimmers that are still on staff. So there's two that are still on staff there, Olivia Hansen and Kayla Paz. And they learned everything they know about working with special needs kids with me, and then also from the special needs kids that they got to learn even more from.
[00:18:19] Speaker C: Okay, wonderful. So if you're in our area, we would highly recommend that resource. And then it sounds like if you're not in our area. But hopefully today's podcast has given you a few more questions to ask as a parent to that point, needing to explain to the swim instructor what their goal is. Is the goal survival, which we said should be first for everyone and then really how much further they want to go with it. But that a parent also has to understand and be patient. Because if you're going to do this correctly, meaning slowly shaping behavior with breaks and reinforcement, it's probably going to take a little longer, right?
[00:18:51] Speaker D: Yes, ma'. Am.
[00:18:52] Speaker C: And then lastly, I don't want to go into it too much today, but I know that there are, I guess, technological tools out there now for parents to be aware of. Like, I know there's items you can put in a PO that connects to an app so that if there's any ripple in the pool, they get notified on their app. So that if maybe their child did elope from the house to the back to the pool, the parent would immediately get an alert on their phone. I've also said, I think those families, if you have a person who's prone to go towards water but doesn't necessarily have their survival skills yet, maybe you go buy those items for your neighbor who has the pool.
[00:19:26] Speaker D: Absolutely. Yes.
[00:19:27] Speaker C: Right. And you just suck up the cost and pay for that, because that would probably be where they go. I know we do a lot of first responder training and one of the things we try to focus on is for first responders, if it's a call for someone with autism, immediately go first to the bodies of water in the area, the detention ponds, the neighbors, pools, that kind of thing. Right?
Yeah. You know, I think we can't do enough around water safety. As you pointed out, drowning is the number one cause of death. And so hopefully today our listeners have learned a few tips and tricks. And hopefully if you're a swim instructor, then you're also learning that there's some things you can do that are not hard. I think that's the other point too. Right. Like what you're doing is not rocket science. It's about human behavior. It's about making the child want to have buy in. And it should not be a traumatic experience.
[00:20:11] Speaker D: Exactly. Yes. It should eventually become tolerable. A friend. Just as you said, we want the kids to enjoy being in the water. That's kind of the whole point eventually.
[00:20:19] Speaker C: Right, Exactly. And because we know they do, again, whether it's in a bathtub or whether it's in a pool or in a lake, we want them to be safe. Right. If people wanted to reach out to you and ask more questions or get resources or advice from you, is there a place they can contact you?
[00:20:33] Speaker D: Absolutely. They can contact me by phone, via text, email. I'd be happy to share all of that information. Information.
[00:20:40] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:20:40] Speaker D: I do think that I could really assist parents in finding a good instructor or even helping the instructor they already have learn how to do better. I'm always willing to mentor younger instructors. I think there's not enough appropriate help out there. The industry should grow. There's lots of things about it that I think are so important. And I'll be back.
I should be back in the Houston area next summer.
[00:21:04] Speaker C: Well, that's wonderful. Until then, I love the fact that you're a resource again. If there's a parent listening right now in Michigan and as they're going to their local swimming, they can reach out to you and you can support that strim instructor. So that's. That's wonderful. Thank you so much for doing that. Well, Emily, I'm so glad you were on today. This is such an important, passionate topic and I think what you've done for the community of autism has already done so much. And the fact that you're willing to help train the trainer and grow more is absolutely invaluable. So thank you so much for being here.
[00:21:32] Speaker D: Thank you. I appreciate it. It was a really good experience.
[00:21:35] Speaker C: Awesome.
[00:21:36] Speaker E: At McAlpine Entry, we believe strong communities grow when everyone has the opportunity to thrive. Based in the Lake Houston area, we specialize in commercial real estate, brokerage and property management across greater Houston, helping businesses lease, buy and sell the spaces where they can succeed. We're proud to support inspirend and their mission to increase awareness, understanding and inclusion for the neurodiverse community. Learn more@mcalpine interests.com McAlpine interests looking after your best interests.
[00:22:12] Speaker C: If you need help or resources, whether you're a parent, someone on the spectrum,
[00:22:16] Speaker B: a business or a community organization who want to know more or need help or want to share resources, please reach out to
[email protected] thanks for joining us
[00:22:28] Speaker A: on Shining Through Inspiring Voices Autism. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to follow us, leave a review and share it with others who want to celebrate neurodiversity. Until next time, keep shining.
