[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to Shining Through Inspire Voices of Autism with show host Jennifer Dantzler. My name is Veronica and I have Williams syndrome. Thank you for taking the time to learn more about the world of autism. If you enjoy what you hear today, don't forget to subscribe to this podcast. Hey there, everyone. This is Jennifer Dantzler, and I'm the executive director and founder of Inspire nd, a nonprofit whose mission is to create truly inclusive communities and through education and engagement. The goal of this podcast is to shine a light on real people and their stories in hopes of inspiring others who are on this journey of autism, either themselves, their child, their loved one, their co worker. I truly believe ignorance is not bliss and we cannot be inclusive communities if we do not understand the people in the community. With autism now affecting 1 in 31 people, we need to get louder about this topic, and that's our goal during this podcast. We recognize that autism is a spectrum. There are a lot of people with a lot of different needs, a lot of resources available or none available. And we know that in every episode we can't meet everyone's needs for their specific interest.
However, we hope that in each episode you do gleam some kind of insight as to how you can help your child or yourself be a better advocate. And as we go through our podcasts, our goal really is to address the entire spectrum, the various needs, the various environments that we're going to be in. And we hope that there's something in every episode for each one of you. So let's get started.
I am here today with my friend and now colleague, Jenna Muscat. I have known Jenna now for actually 28 of her 29 years of life, we think.
So Jenna is the sibling to a young man on the spectrum who will be on this podcast at a later date and who is now 32. So Jenna is on today because not only is she a sibling who has grown up with a brother with autism, but she is actually now a board certified behavior analyst helping serve other people on the spectrum. So, Jenna, thank you so much for being here today.
[00:02:13] Speaker B: Thanks for having me.
[00:02:14] Speaker A: Quick little story. We were just talking before we started recording. I knew Jenna when she was a baby and I was actually working with her brother. And I remember being in the vehicle with her and her mom and brother and. And she was in the back, a little frustrated, throwing a little, like little sassy little tantrum.
[00:02:31] Speaker B: Nothing's changed.
[00:02:32] Speaker A: And we were.
And we were riding in an suv, and I said to the mom, I said, all I know is I will never be Driving an SUV and having kids or owning dogs or living in a town, a suburb like we live in. And boy, was I wrong. I am the epitome of all that. Wow.
[00:02:49] Speaker B: Way to go.
[00:02:50] Speaker A: I did do all those things so well. Thank you for being here, Jenna. And so today, what I really want to do is talk a little bit about your journey. A sibling. I know there's more talk about that now, but I don't think there's enough real talk about it because the reality is the siblings are the ones that carry a lot of the burden, meaning their childhood often looks different and then also later in life.
[00:03:13] Speaker B: Right.
[00:03:13] Speaker A: The reality is, for those who still need care, the responsibility will fall to the sibling. So I really appreciate you being here. Let's start with what's your earliest memory you have realizing that your brother had autism or that something was different?
[00:03:27] Speaker B: I do remember one time me and Brennan were at home with, you probably remember Miss Rusty, our nanny at the Times, and we were playing cars, doing something, and we got in some kind of fight, and she pulled me to the side and she was just like, jenna, you can't do that. Your brother's different. He doesn't understand. And I remember being really confused by that because, you know, I don't. I don't know if my parents ever had like a sit down conversation with me, but, like, that was all I knew. That was my normal, so I didn't know anything else. You grew up going to, you know, therapy with him. I remember your first center going there and, you know, going to community outings with him and all the other patients, and. And that was just my normal. So it wasn't this, like, weird thing.
[00:04:08] Speaker A: To me, it does become your new normal. And I guess in some ways that's good. In some ways, not so good.
[00:04:13] Speaker B: It was all I knew.
[00:04:14] Speaker A: What was the hardest part of growing up with a brother with autism?
[00:04:17] Speaker B: I mean, it was definitely different. I think the stress that a diagnosis puts on a family is very real. Brennan bounced around from school to school with different therapists and aids, and it was a pretty busy life. You know, I had a nanny growing up because my mom was really busy taking care of Brennan and doing everything in her power to get him the best treatment possible. You know, I didn't really grow up playing sports or doing, like, competitive things like that because, you know, my family was really busy. And that was never something that I was, like, resentful of. It was just, like I said, like, that was my normal.
[00:04:54] Speaker A: So just what? It was okay. Right. How do you think him having autism has shaped who you are today.
[00:05:00] Speaker B: You know, in general, I'm just a very empathetic person. I feel like a lot of times people aren't very understanding of things that they don't understand, whereas my perspective is literally every person you meet is fighting some kind of unimaginable battle that you have no idea about. So just give people. People a little bit of grace and patience, because you never know, like, the storm going on in someone's life. And I feel like that's the biggest thing it's. It's taught me is just to never judge a person or something that you see, because there's always so much more that we don't know about that we need to be empathetic towards.
[00:05:33] Speaker A: You didn't set out destined to be a bcba you had other dreams and. And careers. Right.
[00:05:39] Speaker B: I never thought I'd end up in this field. I don't think so. I think it was a little end.
[00:05:44] Speaker A: Up in this field.
[00:05:45] Speaker B: Yeah. So I feel like I didn't really know what I wanted to do with my life. I went to college, and I got a bachelor's in psychology just because to me, I was like, well, that's super broad. I can do so much with that. Spoiler alert. It's not true. A bachelor's in psychology is. I don't want to say meaningless, but pretty meaningless. So I got out of college. I didn't really know what I wanted to do when I was taking my psych classes in college. I really did enjoy them. You know, the field of psychology is so broad, and there's so many different avenues that you can. You can take it. And so when I got out of college and realized that I needed to go back to school and get my master's, I kind of thought about two different things. I was like, I can either go towards behavioral psychology and go down the autism route, or I can go down, you know, mental health counseling. And I applied to programs for both of them, didn't really know what I wanted to do, and ultimately landed on behavioral psychology. When I was in college and taking classes for behavioral psychology, it was all stuff that I already knew because it was stuff that I had grown up doing that I had seen you do with Brennan. And it all just came very naturally to me. So I think that's kind of why I landed down that path.
[00:06:49] Speaker A: You know, as we talk about aba, Applied Behavior analysis is the study of human behavior, not autistic behavior. It is common sense if you let it be. Yeah, right. And as you said, you were sort of living it your whole life. What do you admire most about your brother?
[00:07:02] Speaker B: His humor. I think if you know, you know.
[00:07:05] Speaker A: That you like his dad jokes, I.
[00:07:08] Speaker B: Like his dad jokes. I'll never. I guess this is me admitting that, but Brennan is just the funniest person in the world if you get to know him. He's so quick with his wit, it's almost jarring. Sometimes he'll say something and I'll just get quiet, and I'm, like, trying to think of a response in my head to be funny like him, and I just. I'm not funny, like, just can't keep up with him. But I definitely admire his humor. I admire his passion. His passion to advocate for. For those with autism is just immense. And I think that's been really special to see. I think especially comparing it to, like, growing up as I was growing up, like, Brennan never talked about his autism. I feel like it was almost something he was very ashamed of. It was just this thing we didn't speak of. I was in high school. It had to have been my senior year of high school. Brennan was. He had to have been, like, 21, 22, still with the school district. He was doing the sports training stuff. He somehow got the connection to go visit one of the local news stations downtown. And one of the sports reporters met Brennan and really, like, loved him and wanted to do a story on him. So he did a new story on Brennan, and it got put out in the news, and the reception from that was just amazing. And I think that is kind of the pivotal point in Brennan's life where he realized, like, oh, like, this is really cool. I am doing really cool things. And he finally felt comfortable to, you know, talk about everything. And from there, like, he started public speaking, and he just, I feel, like, just flourished from that point.
[00:08:34] Speaker A: So, yes, and we should say so. Brennan is actually an RBT now at a local ABA clinic, the same clinic that Jenna's at, actually. And so, yes, he is doing really, really well. But more on him on his episode. So what fueled your passion to become a bcba?
[00:08:49] Speaker B: Yeah, I feel like a lot of people would expect that answer to be like, obviously because of my brother. And I'm sure that that's partially true, but I think more so it was my realization that Brennan's story is not the normal story. I think a lot of people, when they don't really know about autism, when they think of it, they think of these feel good, happy stories. You know, the manager of the high school basketball team that the team, you know, takes under their wing and I'll become friends with him and like, that's great. And that's Brennan's story and I'm so thankful for that. And not to take away from the struggles that he's had because he has had really, you know, big struggles that he's had to work through. But I think that there's a whole population of those with autism that people don't understand what it can look like. You know, when you talk about the profoundly autistic, those who can't speak for themselves, those who engage in self injury and aggression, who are going to need 24, 7 lifelong care, that's a population that I think is massively underrepresented and underserved. And I think that is why I got into the field.
[00:09:45] Speaker A: And I think what people don't always understand is that you have parents who still did everything right, and sometimes some of our guys are just more affected. Right. And yeah, and they maybe can't make as much success, as many leaps and bounds as Brennan, but in their own way they can. Right. And you're out there helping advocate for them and really be their voice. With your experiences growing up as a sibling who received ABA and now being a BCBA yourself, how have you seen ABA change over the years?
[00:10:15] Speaker B: I feel like the biggest thing is when you talk about insurance coverage of aba. Back when Brennan was getting treatment, insurance coverage wasn't a thing. It was all private pay. You know, I've never been blind to the fact that my family was very blessed to be able to get that treatment for Brennan not having insurance coverage. And I'm very thankful for it. You probably know better than I do. It was, what, the mid to late 2000s where insurance started covering ABA. A massive population now had access to services, which was great.
But as insurance started to cover aba, they got very strict on the things that you can and cannot work on. So I've been in this field, working in this field for five years at this point. And just in my five years, you know, it's gotten stricter and stricter. You know, insurance gets very tough on the things we can and cannot work on. And it can be challenging. There's a lot of red tape to work around. When you talk about goals that they define as medically necessary or things that they say, well, that should be taught in school, that's an academic goal, or that's custodial care or things like that, it can be really challenging. You know, insurance will slash hours, they will deny services for kiddos that really, really desperately need aba. And I think that can be really discouraging, honestly. And it can feel very defeating working in the field sometimes.
[00:11:31] Speaker A: So, you know, some of the hardest parts of that is, you know, and then there's sort of this expiration date on insurance based services. But your brother's a great example. He's in his 30s and he's still receiving some coaching. And I mean, we all can be lifelong learners, right? ABA is about human behavior, it's not about autism. And so we all sometimes need some of those services, some of those shaping of behaviors, some of those reinforcement systems.
[00:11:54] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think like when you say, like, my brother's 32 and he's still receiving services, like, yes, he is still receiving services, but that's because my family is able to, you know, pay for those services. When you talk about insurance coverage, you know, a lot of times as kids grow into adults, like with age, insurance gets even more tight with that. And I think a big thing we forget is that every kid with autism grows up to be an adult with autism, and they likely still need a lot of support, supports that for the most part, aren't there or extremely hard to access.
[00:12:23] Speaker A: And I know you and I have talked about this many times where again, as you grew up, there were things that I did with the family. This was way before licensure and certification, so we were not breaking any laws. But when I think about, right, I went on a ski trip with your family and top Brent into ski.
But how many meaningful family trips you've had since then because he was able to ski. Right.
But it was literally taking aba, breaking it down into shaping of behavior, into skills, into task analysis and doing all those things that a ski instructor might or might not have been able to do. But it was about quality of life and access to life.
[00:13:01] Speaker B: I remember when I was in my master's program when I took my first ethics class and really dove deep into the ethics of behavior, real psychology, and all the rules, I was thinking, gosh, like every single thing Jen did with us is unethical. But I, I remember it made me so sad because I was like, okay, well, if these rules had been in effect back then and Jen had to abide by them, she couldn't have done all these things with us. Where would Brennan be today? And I would love to think that he would be right where he is. But, you know, the reality is I don't know that that's true. We were very lucky at the time. And of course I understand, you know, the reason why those rules are in place to protect our patients. But I think it was definitely, you know, hard as a sister who had seen, you know, the other side of things to learn all the things that you can't do. Because I'm like, well, Brennan benefited from those things. Like, he is where he is today because of those things. So I think that was a hard part of kind of getting into the field.
[00:13:54] Speaker A: It is hard. And again, you and I have talked about this offline as far as. But autism now affects 1 in 31, so there have to be rules and regulations and boundaries. And as you said, we're very happy that insurance so more families can get access to it. However, with that comes more boundaries.
[00:14:10] Speaker B: Yeah, it's like a. It's a catch 22. You know, obviously now so many more people have access to treatment, which is just amazing. It is a little bit sad sometimes what we can't work on.
[00:14:20] Speaker A: What is a piece of advice you'd want to give parents of newly diagnosed children?
[00:14:25] Speaker B: I feel like the biggest piece of advice I could give them, which is probably the most daunting piece of advice, would be to plan for the future. Now, just because your kiddo's three, like, start making a plan. And I say that because it's better to make a plan on your terms than to have to come up with a plan when insurance inevitably deny services. You know, hopefully that's a long way down the road. Or when you get to that point, you no longer need treatment, but you don't want to be 16, and they deny services and now you don't have a plan. Plan for the future. Now, I know you've talked about it before. You know, the wait list in the state of Texas for a Medicaid waiver.
[00:14:56] Speaker A: Is what, over 16 years?
[00:14:58] Speaker B: 16 years long.
That's just heartbreaking that it is that long to get, you know, the financial support that these families need. So just plan for the future now. And I, again, I know that that is such a daunting thing to, to tell someone of a newly diagnosed, let's say three year old, but.
[00:15:16] Speaker A: Right. Well, and I think for some of our families now whose child might be like in their early 20s when they started with Aba, if they were able to do it privately and now it's switched to insurance.
[00:15:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:26] Speaker A: They're not understanding now why their BCBAs are having different conversations that they are. And now in what I call six month hill. Right. With these authorizations, and they just assumed they were going to be with us for life because they were making progress. And doing what we needed.
[00:15:39] Speaker B: And then, you know, that might be how it started and how we wanted it to be, but just with the insurance world, that's not the reality we live in. Like you said, the six month authorization hell, like that's very true.
[00:15:51] Speaker A: The future is going to come whether you're prepared for it or not. So you, you can't look away.
[00:15:55] Speaker B: Exactly. You can't, you can't look away. Go into it head on.
[00:15:59] Speaker A: Now, your brother, as we talked about, is an independent working adult who drives, lives on his own and a whole bunch more.
[00:16:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:06] Speaker A: What do you think are the most important skills we can teach our children on the spectrum?
[00:16:13] Speaker B: You know, it's going to vary from child to child because every patient I have is so incredibly different. And you talk about, you know, goals that are individualized, they talk about goals that are socially significant, you know, but I also like to think about what goals are significant to the individual, what goals are significant to the family. You know, something that you've worked on with Brennan a lot is to understand that family time is important. Okay. That might not be socially significant for someone else, but that's very significant for him. So I say really, you know, leaning into the individual and what matters to their family.
[00:16:45] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think especially now in today's day and age with some of the funding restrictions, it's about what's going to get funded and it's not about stepping back and saying, what do you want most? We actually just recently had another person who's on the spectrum, who runs his own company on, and he said, you know, when he can, he even brings the child in and asks, what do you want on your treatment plan?
[00:17:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:08] Speaker A: And I think it's something as simple as that that we don't even think to do because it might be something that insurance doesn't cover. Yeah.
[00:17:15] Speaker B: I think we a lot of times forget about the autonomy of our patients. Especially if we're talking about patients who are non verbal. We might think that they can't, you know, speak for themselves, but if you can listen in the right ways, they really can tell us a lot of things. So like you said, I think it is really important that, you know, you get collaboration not only from parents and caregivers, but from the client themselves. Like, what do they want to work on? What is their biggest struggle that is hard for them. And not every client is going to be able to give us an answer to that. But a lot of times if we can watch their behavior closely, that'll tell us for them.
[00:17:49] Speaker A: I Think there are more clients that can, and we don't really have to.
[00:17:52] Speaker B: Do it for sure.
[00:17:53] Speaker A: What do you want to say to other siblings? There might be someone listening whose brother is 10 and they're 16 and they've lived the life that you lived going to therapies, not maybe being able to do certain things because parents were committed otherwise. What do you want to say to those siblings?
[00:18:10] Speaker B: Give them a hug. It can be challenging, and I don't say that to say that I lived this hard life and I'm resentful for it, because I'm not at all. It's been the biggest honor to be Brennan's sister, but it can be hard, and it can be really heavy. I think a lot of times you feel the need to control everything around you. There's a lot of research out there on siblings of those with autism and how they feel the need to almost protect their family. And a lot of times their life is chaotic and their sibling is unpredictable, and, you know, you might have these really severe behaviors and these really traumatic things happen. So they try to control every other aspect that they can.
[00:18:46] Speaker A: Yes. I actually just read about that recently in a book called Autism Out Loud, which is a phenomenal book, and it's apparently called Parentification. Yeah, if I said that correctly, where you sort of assume too much responsibility a little bit too early, maybe. Yeah.
[00:18:58] Speaker B: I mean, I feel like I definitely had to grow up young, and that's to no fault of, like, my parents or my brother, but just you take on this responsibility to make your home as happy of a place as you can and to try to fix everything in. Even when you. Even when you can't. And that's definitely, like, carried on into my adult life and my personal life, and it can be challenging. So.
[00:19:20] Speaker A: So here's a question that was not on the list. Did you ever say to your parents that you're angry or that you feel like you've not gotten as much or that you wish your brother didn't have autism, or. Did you ever have low moments?
[00:19:35] Speaker B: I mean, I had low moments, but I was never angry, and I'm not angry. I think my parents did a really good job of giving me everything that I needed while still balancing everything that Brennan needed, because he needed a lot more than I did, and I still needed a lot of things. But I think they did a really good job of that, and I'm really thankful for it. But, I mean, I think they do know that because of his diagnosis, there are things I struggle with now that I've had to deal with. But again, I think my parents did a great job. So way to go, Jay and Elch.
[00:20:11] Speaker A: Well, and I think if you are a parent out there listening, it is also okay to take care of the siblings. Right. And at that point, it might mean the child having to miss a day of therapy or choosing the child over maybe their autistic child's therapy, because. And that's okay. You know, you cannot literally be all things to all people all the time. And there are points that there has to be choices, and it's okay on any given day if it's not the child with autism and it is the sibling, and they shouldn't be. They shouldn't feel bad about that.
[00:20:43] Speaker B: I think that's something I've also carried into. You know, my role as a behavior analyst is like, what goals are realistic? You know, when we talk about parent training goals and home goals. Okay, well, is it actually realistic for parents to sit and take data every night of one child for, you know, two hours?
No, that's not realistic. So I think I've really tried to hone in on. Okay, like, what is actually realistic for a family?
[00:21:06] Speaker A: Because you've lived it.
[00:21:06] Speaker B: Because I've lived it. Yeah, exactly.
[00:21:08] Speaker A: Yep.
Is there a plan for who makes sure your brother is taken care of after your parents go?
[00:21:15] Speaker B: Yes, that's actually something my parents have been working on recently. There is a plan. My parents have worked with a few different lawyers and financial advisors to make sure that Brennan is well taken care of. In the event that anything happens to my parents, I assume all financial responsibility.
And my parents have done a great job to make sure that that's all laid out for me. And then if something happens to me and my parents, it would go to. To my uncle. So my parents have made sure that kind of, hopefully all contingencies are accounted for.
[00:21:48] Speaker A: Does that scare you?
[00:21:49] Speaker B: It's heavy. You know, it's definitely.
It's heavier. You know, I've seen my friends move across the country on a whim or, you know, move overseas on a whim, and that's just never been something that I felt was a possibility for me.
Because it's like, I have Brennan, and yes, he has my parents, and he's incredibly independent and he lives on his own. And he would probably be annoyed if I was over his shoulder every second of the day.
[00:22:13] Speaker A: Yes, he would.
[00:22:14] Speaker B: But it's never going to just be about me. I'm always going to be a package deal when it comes to Brennan. You know, that being said, I don't feel as tied down as I, as I once did, but it's definitely something that I don't want to say weighs heavy on me because that makes it sound like it's a burden. And I want to emphasize that it's not a burden, it's an honor. It's something that I always have in the back of my mind that it's never just going to be about me.
[00:22:37] Speaker A: Right.
[00:22:37] Speaker B: There's always going to be someone else in the picture.
[00:22:39] Speaker A: And it is a reality. You're right. It doesn't have to be a burden, but it is a reality that needs to be talked about. And I think for you all as a family, what I've admired is the conversations are happening.
[00:22:49] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:22:50] Speaker A: I think too many times I've sat in futures planning meetings where it's the parents and the siblings and aunts and uncles.
And then in the meeting is where this 20 year old sibling learns that, oh, they would get responsibility of their sibling if they should die. And no one had talked to them and said, do you want that? Are you prepared for that? What do you need from me to make that happen?
And those conversations are not happening. And again, as you said about talking about the future, the future is going to happen.
So let's be as prepared and you at least have that, you know, platform then to say, here's what I need, here's what I, what I don't know to be able to do. Now you happen to be also bcba, so I think you're, you will know what, what to look at and, and what supports you will need. But not every sibling does have that expertise. Right. And so for parents, just, just having that conversation openly and discussing it freely.
[00:23:42] Speaker B: Yeah, it was the other day I had to text my mom, like, can you send me the contact information for the lawyer? Because God forbid something happened, I need to know who I'm supposed to contact.
So that was a little bit scary.
[00:23:52] Speaker A: But it's something as simple as that.
[00:23:54] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, I mean, it's just, it's our reality and it's my life and it was the cards we were dealt. And I will do whatever I can to be there for Brennan, but I mean, Brennan's pretty independent. Yeah. Got to give him credit, you know, he doesn't need much.
[00:24:08] Speaker A: Right, Right. Yeah. So in that way, you're very blessed. And I will say for our listeners, Jenna and Brennan are probably also the very tips typical sibling.
[00:24:15] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:24:16] Speaker A: At point they, they fight, they, they joke, they hug, they laugh, they harass each other, do all the things all the time to each other. And it's. It's a.
[00:24:24] Speaker B: It's a very typical sibling relationship.
[00:24:26] Speaker A: It is absolutely. Very typical sibling relationship, again with, like, you know, but yet you have each other's backs all the time.
[00:24:32] Speaker B: We do.
[00:24:33] Speaker A: And that's. That's very.
[00:24:35] Speaker B: He will always be the most important thing to me, and I will always do whatever I can to protect him and be there for him.
[00:24:41] Speaker A: So do you think having a brother with autism has made you a better person?
[00:24:45] Speaker B: 100%. I would never, never take it back. I mean, I am who I am because of him. I mean, every part of me is shaped by the fact of Brennan has lived. You know, honestly, he's lived a hard life. And I think if you know Brennan today, he seems like he has it all together, and he does.
But Brennan had a lot of really hard challenges, and he still does behind closed doors that people probably don't know about or understand. You know, it comes back to, like, his brain is wired differently. He sees the world different. He interprets things differently. Things that are innate to you and me are not innate to him. And that can be really hard at times. Things that are as simple as, okay, I'm supposed to go to the grocery store and get xyz, and they're out of it. Okay, let me regroup and figure something else out that will send Brennan into a tizzy sometimes. And that sounds really superficial, but for him, it cuts really deep of him. Well, now I'm not good enough, and I'm stupid and I'm this and I'm that. And, like, a simple thing like that can really weigh heavy on him. And it can mean, you know, weeks of him feeling horrible about himself.
[00:25:48] Speaker A: Do you ever, ever have an internal struggle where you just, you know, you could go in and rescue or do. And do you. Or do you let him figure it out?
[00:25:56] Speaker B: Gotta let the bird fly at some point, I feel like I let him figure it out. I obviously try to provide support as much as possible, but I try to do it in a way that I'm not doing it for him. I'm teaching him so that next time he can do it for himself and also just providing him support afterwards.
[00:26:13] Speaker A: But that's the bcba in you, of.
[00:26:15] Speaker B: Course, the BCBA in me, and it's also the protective sister bear in me.
Both of those things combined.
[00:26:21] Speaker A: Yep. Is there anything else you'd want to share with parents or siblings or anyone who might be listening as far as being a sibling of someone on the spectrum?
[00:26:29] Speaker B: Advocacy. Advocacy. Advocacy. Advocacy. I Think this field is ever evolving and ever changing. You know, we talk about aba, but also just autism in general and the whole diagnosis. I mean, just in the past, you know, 10 years, we've seen how the diagnosis has changed and how they've reclassified things. And I think just advocate for yourself and your needs, and if your needs aren't being met, why aren't they being met? And what can we do about that? You know, you talk about adults with autism and the supports that they need.
A lot of times, unfortunately, like those supports aren't there. And we need to advocate to our government to provide things that we need.
There's a lot of work being done on. On Capitol Hill by amazing people. I mean, weren't you there, what, two months ago in Austin? In Austin, two months ago. Be the voice, especially for those who. Who can't speak for themselves.
[00:27:19] Speaker A: And I think having watched and been a part a lot of that, I think the sibling voice is actually sometimes the most powerful.
[00:27:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:27:26] Speaker A: Because you don't really have an alternative agenda. Like you're really just there advocating to help your sibling. And I know from a. From a state level and even a national level, like the sibling voice is a very, very powerful voice.
[00:27:40] Speaker B: I have a lot to say and a lot to loudly say. But, yeah, I would just say be loud in your advocacy because you have to be loud to get your. Your needs met.
[00:27:50] Speaker A: Right. So. Well, Jenna, we are so grateful you are here. And really, you are just done so many great things already, and I know you're going to continue to do more. And I look forward to watching you and Brennan unfold.
Continue to thrive and grow in both of your careers. And I can't thank you enough for being here.
[00:28:09] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:28:09] Speaker A: If you need help or resources, whether you're a parent, someone on the spectrum, a business or a community organization who want to know more or need help or want to share resources, please reach out to
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[00:29:10] Speaker B: Sam.
